Topic: Discounts on MixApp? | Allen & Heath Digital Community

Discounts on MixApp?

This topic contains 52 replies, has 18 voices, and was last updated by Musikhof 11 years, 1 month ago.

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2013/01/14 at 3:20 am #32643

Stix
Participant

You pay one way or another – Go and purchase a Yamaha CL if you want a free app and a similar spec’d machine to an iLive – it certainly won’t be cheaper! Same with most other digital mixer brands. Allen & Heath have chosen to charge to cover app development costs and not include it in the mixer cost. I personally think that is a better idea as it keeps the mixer price down and at the same time stops wannabe sound engineers downloading a free app and thinking they are now a super engineer because they can walk around while making sound changes that aren’t actually required!
I and I’m sure others here don’t consider it an expensive app – but a cheap and powerful audio tool!

Cheers

Richard Howey
Audio Dynamite Ltd
IDR48/IDR16/T112/R72/Mixpad,Tweak,
Dual M-Dante/DVS, 17″MBP/Logic 9/Custom Mackie Control

2013/01/14 at 3:26 am #32644

Detonator
Participant

Shuahughes –

Perhaps you could fill us in with YOUR experience with the Roland m200-i app… I couldn’t find a download for this app, would you be so kind to provide a link… Maybe you could direct us to a FULL listing of the capabilities of the app, I’ve searched & just got some sketchy info, no details, just a few general parameters… (I was told by Sweetwater here in the US that the consoles haven’t been shipped yet…)

Tim Tyler
Detonator Sound
Richmond, Va USA
T112/48 R72/32 laptop iPad Dir-815 Dante

2013/01/14 at 3:52 am #32645

millst
Participant

Price is always equated to Value!

With the Roland App or almost all of the other apps, they can’t actually replace a mixer. ie, you still need to bring the mixer along to the gig.

However, with the iLive app, it can replace a mixer, which makes it quite a bit more valuable.

It is conceivable, that a user could avoid buying a surface if they have an application that allows them to use the iPad app and the laptop software. I have done exactly that for a recent install.

This means the value of the iPad software for the iLive is the equivalent of the avoided cost of having to buy a surface.
This is many thousands of dollars.

In this context, the app at a price of around $100 (i forget what it actually is), is comparatively cheap.

With all the other apps (including roland etc), the cost of the App is paid for by the fact that you have to buy the surface. With the iLive, because you don’t necessarily have to buy a surface and the racks are priced so cheap (relative to their horsepower), A&H would have to recoup the cost of developing the app from the app sales itself.

It is therefore in my opinion a bargain and people who complain about the price, should really think a bit more about value before they do so.

2013/01/14 at 5:11 am #32649

Stix
Participant

Exactly as Toby (millst) said!

And Editor IS free and has full control capability so you don’t have to buy a surface or Mixpad if you don’t think they are worth it! So can we now please quit the price bitchin of the Mixpad app!

Cheers

Richard Howey
Audio Dynamite Ltd
IDR48/IDR16/T112/R72/Mixpad,Tweak,
Dual M-Dante/DVS, 17″MBP/Logic 9/Custom Mackie Control

2013/01/16 at 12:26 am #32682

Jens-Droessler
Participant

I did not bitch about the price. I’m just disappointed by the number of features. I also did not ask for a full control or full replacement of a surface or the editor, just for SOME more features like control over the effects (something even Behringer recently added to their free iPad app. and I’m mentioning that it’s free not because of the price of the MixApp, but to make the point that even FREE apps will be expanded, and this one already has some features MixApp doesn’t have, which is bad if you need to get people to buy it).

Yes, maybe the information about what the app can do is freely available, but the things that I’m missing are so basic I expected them to be there, not even thinking they could be missing. Who’d expect a car to be missing a steering wheel?

2013/01/16 at 4:39 pm #32690

Detonator
Participant

Jens –

I agree about the inability to get to the fx parameters, though I can live without that feature. The tap button does gets my use, but things such as scene save/recall are non-issues for me.

I think the main features that makes me a “fanboy” of this app are the ability to set up the 2 16 channel “custom strip layers” (the main feature, IMO) and the split screen. I find the ability to use the “sends on fader” from both the input and output perspective useful, as well as the channel delays. I don’t know which other apps have these features.

It boils down to which features are the “must have” for you. For me, it’s the custom strips. I’ll admit I have faith the parameter control for fx is in the pipeline, as well as scene manipulation.

Something I’d hope to see is the ability to turn features on/off, to increase performance for the ones the user considers essential…

Regards,

Tim Tyler
Detonator Sound
Richmond, Va USA
T112/48 R72/32 laptop iPad Dir-815 Dante

2013/01/17 at 11:07 pm #32718

Jens-Droessler
Participant

The fact that I’m disappointed does not mean I won’t be happy if some or all of the features I want will be implemented. But how will the devs know what “we” want, if we don’t spell out what we don’t like? Of course I hope the system I put my faith and my money into will be improved even more over time. And the fact that we paid a buttload of money for the MixApp (that’s buttload in comparison of the free apps from all the competitors) should be a reason for the devs to go at least as far as the other apps go in terms of features. If Behringer can do effects for free on an app for a mixer costing a third of an iLive T system, we should have that too for our >80 bucks, right? That’s all I’m saying…

2013/01/22 at 1:58 am #32761

shuahughes
Participant

quote:

Originally posted by Detonator

Shuahughes –

Perhaps you could fill us in with YOUR experience with the Roland m200-i app… I couldn’t find a download for this app, would you be so kind to provide a link… Maybe you could direct us to a FULL listing of the capabilities of the app, I’ve searched & just got some sketchy info, no details, just a few general parameters… (I was told by Sweetwater here in the US that the consoles haven’t been shipped yet…)

A very reasonable request.
The roland app is new, so details may be hard to find.
Note that I haven’t personally used it.

Mike Sessler at https://churchtecharts.org/ did a fair review of the Roland M200i, Behringer X32 and PreSonus 24.4.2
It is in 4 parts:
https://churchtecharts.org/home/2012/12/14/digital-mixer-comparison-m200i-x32-studiolive-2442pt1
https://churchtecharts.org/home/2012/12/17/digital-mixer-comparison-m200i-x32-studiolive-2442pt2
https://churchtecharts.org/home/2012/12/15/digital-mixer-comparison-m200i-x32-studiolive-2442pt3
https://churchtecharts.org/home/2012/12/21/digital-mixer-comparison-m200i-x32-studiolive-2442pt-4

Part 3 is the iPad app reviews.

Note that his review is targeted at churches getting into the smaller format digital mixer world. He didn’t include the iLive. Possibly because he hasn’t fully realised the power of running iLive without a surface.

For the price point, all of these mixers compete directly again an iDR16 or iDR32 with no surface.
Also, the Roland and PreSonus could be setup beside the stage much like the MixRack, and then run by the iPad from FOH, and the footprint isn’t huge, so really the “not needing the surface” argument doesn’t really apply as the price is similar.

the Roland M200i app offers HeadAmp control including gain, 48V etc.
It includes scene management, input / output patching control.
Control of FX parameters etc.

Now obviously, if you need more channels then the 24 to 32 channels these desks offer, then you are into much bigger dollars, looking to add stage racks and bigger surfaces.
So for a big rig, the cost of the MixPad app is totally justified.
I agree that iLive is choosing not to put the app cost into the MixRack prices.

But these competing small format desks have free apps and still come in below the iLive iDR pricing. Obviously this could easily lead into a “you pay for what you get” debate, and how the quality of the iLive is better than those compared here.
I totally agree, the iLive is awesome, it offers amazing quality for the price point to a small church who are happy to run without a surface.

But to this small church market, when comparing against the competition in this market, the iLive app looks way over priced. Especially seeing as the app may need to be loaded for several different volunteers iPads.

If you are a full time sound guy, large rental company, or big church with a paid permanent FOH engineer, the MixPad app price is easily justified and makes sense.
Maybe this is the only market A&H really care about….if so fair enough.
I’m just voicing the impression of the little guy, who loves the product and is actively promoting small churches in my community to install iLive as an amazingly flexible solution that offers incredible quality and great ease of use for volunteers!

Blessings,
Josh

2013/01/22 at 10:13 am #32765

guyharris
Participant

quote:

Originally posted by Jens Droessler

The fact that I’m disappointed does not mean I won’t be happy if some or all of the features I want will be implemented. But how will the devs know what “we” want, if we don’t spell out what we don’t like? Of course I hope the system I put my faith and my money into will be improved even more over time. And the fact that we paid a buttload of money for the MixApp (that’s buttload in comparison of the free apps from all the competitors) should be a reason for the devs to go at least as far as the other apps go in terms of features. If Behringer can do effects for free on an app for a mixer costing a third of an iLive T system, we should have that too for our >80 bucks, right? That’s all I’m saying…

Someone further up said that ‘price = quality’. That’s certainly the case for A&H, and certainly the case for Behringer. Remember that the A&H software (both editors and smartphone Apps) kills some of their own sales (surfaces and PL-ANET units).

Having used Behringer digital mixers in the past, for 3rd parties I hasten to add, and seen them fail (something that’s never happened in my experience with A&H equipment), I feel that +/- €80 for the full MixPad and €7 for the monitoring version is a very good deal. Plus, because you pay for it, you value it and have every right to have your say in its maintenance and further development.

A&H are very reactive; make your feelings known (for example about the lack of editing for FX, which I agree with) and you can be sure that they’ll listen to their customers … Behringer? Hmm – not so sure and I certainly don’t consider them to be a ‘professional’ level sound equipment manufacturer.

http://www.pianodome.nl
3D PianoShow!

2013/01/22 at 11:49 am #32766

woutert
Participant

quote:

Originally posted by guyharris

Quote:

Behringer? Hmm – not so sure and I certainly don’t consider them to be a ‘professional’ level sound equipment manufacturer.

Maybe so, but that doesn’t stop the market from being severely hit by the x32-wave… this is a direct competitor in the GLD-market.

So, I bet that if A&H want to survive this they will need an app for GLD soon…(UPDATE: A&H just released their GLD app , way to go!) plus better marketing… A&H iLive has the right to be considered high quality. Even Behringer manages to shift the perception of their brand.

A result from this development might be that the iLive-app’s functionality is also broadened to keep things into perspective, but probably not the other way round

Wouter
IDR32, R72, Dante, Mixpad
laptop, TP-Link TL-WR1043ND

2013/01/24 at 1:09 am #32791

shuahughes
Participant

The Roland M200i iPad app is now on the app store:
https://itunes.apple.com/au/app/m-200i-remote/id588276040?mt=8

and here’s the Roland page:
https://www.rolandsystemsgroup.com/products/100117

Now, to be clear, I am still recommending iLive to my church groups.
I just wish A&H would fix a few key issues:
MixPad – overpriced, scene control, head amp control, patching control, Dual MixRack
Tweak – GUI is horrible, basic features are great, just horrible layout
Editor – again features are great, but the GUI is so ugly. It feels like something from the 90s
the way the windows open, close, resize and scroll is not user friendly or fast

Also nice to have on the MixPad app would be SMAART type tools.
Either using the iPad mic, or using an existing measurement accessory.
The RTA is useful for feedback, but not system tuning.
the iPad and iPhone apps like AudioTools or Signal Scope are incredible, if these sort of tools can be integrated into MixPad than a premium price is definitely justified.

Note: PreSonus has introduced some SMAART tools into it’s StudioLive editor software.

2013/01/24 at 1:12 am #32792

Jens-Droessler
Participant

quote:

Originally posted by guyharris
Remember that the A&H software (both editors and smartphone Apps) kills some of their own sales (surfaces and PL-ANET units).

Well, the PC editor is free and it is full-featured, while the iPad app comes at a high price for this kind of app (It seems all the competitors apps are free). I don’t think the MixApp can kill surface sales big time, but maybe PL devices sales, at least for “mobile” use (like giving each musician a PL device). OTOH you can “idiot proof” an installation with the PL devices, but not with the MixApp. So I guess it’s not that harmful (the free PC editor on a windows tablet PC would be more harmful, I think). It’s just my point of view, not a complaint about the price.

quote:

Having used Behringer digital mixers in the past, for 3rd parties I hasten to add, and seen them fail (something that’s never happened in my experience with A&H equipment)

To be honest, my first digital mixer was the Behringer DDX3216. It never had any problems, no hickups, no freezes, no nothing. The only reason I sold it was for reputations sake (I got an Yamaha 01v96 instead, big mistake…). I also have yet to hear about critical fails of a X32, in fact I hear only good things about the reliability. But it’s kind of a new product, so there is no way to tell about long term reliability yet. In addition to that, I once had a really bad problem with my T80/iDR32 system, which jammed an event. One of the worst things that can happen to a technical provider like me. My other system, T112/iDR48, never had any problems. So it’s not that easy, there is no “Behringer bad, A&H good”, it’s all gray…

quote:

make your feelings known (for example about the lack of editing for FX, which I agree with) and you can be sure that they’ll listen to their customers …

I thought, that’s what I’m doing here…

quote:

Behringer? Hmm – not so sure and I certainly don’t consider them to be a ‘professional’ level sound equipment manufacturer.

It doesn’t matter what you or I think about that. The question is: “Do they get the job done?” And it seems that way, as the customers seem to be pretty happy with the X32 (No, I surely won’t sell my iLives to get X32s! I know why I decided for iLive and I stand by that decision!). Also, the fact that you don’t see Behringer as a professional level equipment manufacturer makes it even worse: An amateur level equipment company offers features the professionals don’t offer (not to mention for free)? You see where I’m going?

2013/01/24 at 5:55 am #32797

kentlowt
Participant

quote:

Originally posted by shuahughes

The Roland M200i iPad app is now on the app store:
https://itunes.apple.com/au/app/m-200i-remote/id588276040?mt=8

and here’s the Roland page:
https://www.rolandsystemsgroup.com/products/100117

Now, to be clear, I am still recommending iLive to my church groups.
I just wish A&H would fix a few key issues:
MixPad – overpriced, scene control, head amp control, patching control, Dual MixRack
Tweak – GUI is horrible, basic features are great, just horrible layout
Editor – again features are great, but the GUI is so ugly. It feels like something from the 90s
the way the windows open, close, resize and scroll is not user friendly or fast

Also nice to have on the MixPad app would be SMAART type tools.
Either using the iPad mic, or using an existing measurement accessory.
The RTA is useful for feedback, but not system tuning.
the iPad and iPhone apps like AudioTools or Signal Scope are incredible, if these sort of tools can be integrated into MixPad than a premium price is definitely justified.

Note: PreSonus has introduced some SMAART tools into it’s StudioLive editor software.

I am a little wary of piling all that code in the iPad ap and using it for other thing rather than mixing at the same time. If I want to run smaart I would rather have it running on a laptop.

Now I am with you on some kind of rudimentary scene control and patching for the iPad.

I also agree the editor needs a GUI overhaul. It needs to become multitouch capable as well so it works better with a touch screen computers.

112T/IDR48/IDR16

2013/01/24 at 8:16 pm #32813

clarocque
Participant

Will the iPad app be free in the future to match GLD’s free app?

2013/01/25 at 5:30 am #32819

Jens-Droessler
Participant

quote:

Originally posted by clarocque

Will the iPad app be free in the future to match GLD’s free app?

I don’t think so. If that would happen I’d definitely expect a refund!
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