To AH: Please explain the Show/scene design to me.

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This topic contains 11 replies, has 9 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of mumu mumu 8 years, 9 months ago.

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  • #23211
    Profile photo of vilddyr
    vilddyr
    Participant

    Hi.

    I’ve now tried for a while to find out why on earth the scenes are not saved/recalled with a show…? Is this an editor “problem”?

    I saved a show monday, the desk had been running yesterday, so i open my editor software today, load the show i saved monday, and then the scenes from last nights show are there and not the scenes from the show I just loaded… Please tell me how this can be in any way useful and how this can be even possible?!

    Thanx

    #30888
    Profile photo of kentlowt
    kentlowt
    Participant

    I hope you will forgive the rather simplistic analogy. It is not meant as an insult in any way.

    Scenes are the folders in the filing cabinet draw. The show is the draw. The scenes have to be saved(put in the filing cabinet) before they will be saved in a show(drawer).

    Scenes are much quicker in saving and recalling because they contain little to no desk configuration information…

    shows contain desk configuration information that you do not want changing every time you change a scene. The show is intended to be a one time setup.

    Maybe someone else can offer a better explanation than me :S

    112T/IDR48/IDR16

    #30889
    Profile photo of woutert
    woutert
    Participant

    I think I understand your problem.

    Indeed this is due to the design of the system.

    It’s even worse. :-)
    What happens is: the scenes are indeed recalled/saved with a show, but the editor software doesn’t show scene NAMES unless the show is recalled in that editor itself. If you set a scene name using the desk, it doesn’t show on the editor and vice versa. Scene names are NOT part of the datastructure in the central MixRack, however Scene content is! Scene names are regarded as “local data” for each controller.

    I asked/begged A&H to manage the scene names centrally in the MixRack together with the scenes, but for some reason, they told me they think it is the right design decision…

    So, I do agree, this doesn’t make sense *at all*

    To all others who might be wondering “what on earth is he talking about”. Try saving some scenes using one editor (online with MixRack), then connect to the MixRack with another laptop with editor software. You’ll see that scene content is there but you won’t see the scene names you just saved using the first editor…

    Wouter
    IDR32, R72, Dante, Mixpad
    laptop, TP-Link TL-WR1043ND

    #30890
    Profile photo of vilddyr
    vilddyr
    Participant

    @kentlowt, thanks, but as you see in the post below, I have no problem understanding the scene/show structure, but as woutert points out, Allen Heath has made a major design flaw here.s

    Whoever at Allen Heath who thought this was clever, has to change his mind immediately :) As you say, this makes no sense AT ALL.

    #30895
    Profile photo of guyharris
    guyharris
    Participant

    I agree completely. This isn’t clever. It’s plain bloody stupid. For example, if I’m accessing the iLive through a laptop, instead of the Mac that’s permanently attached for editing, and I want to work FoH, I haven’t got a clue which scenes are which … Døh!!

    http://www.pianojam.nl

    #30896
    Profile photo of Detonator
    Detonator
    Participant

    I thought I would put this here… When a system is booted up, the last used scene becomes active, but there is no indication of which scene name or number that it is…

    I have taken to using an unused channel and naming it with the scene number, then saving it. This helps me avoid confusion as I work with bands that have multiple scenes (for different venues)

    I suppose you could pick any channel and naming it with the scene number, say channel for kick drum would always be the scene #.

    Tim Tyler
    Detonator Sound
    Richmond, Va USA
    T112/48 R72/32 laptop iPad Dir-815 Dante

    #30897
    Profile photo of frozenwaffles
    frozenwaffles
    Participant

    A&H just need to rebuild the scene/show file and system structure completly. im sure this will come with version 2.0 (which will probably require version 2 hardware but we’ll keep our fingers crossed)

    Current stock:
    2x T112, 2x R72, 2x iDR-48, 2x iDR-16, 2x xDR-16
    4x Dante Cards, 3x ACE Cards

    #30899
    Profile photo of Dave
    Dave
    Participant

    quote:


    Originally posted by woutert
    To all others who might be wondering “what on earth is he talking about”. Try saving some scenes using one editor (online with MixRack), then connect to the MixRack with another laptop with editor software. You’ll see that scene content is there but you won’t see the scene names you just saved using the first editor…


    Is this only happening with on-line editors? I haven’t noticed this when saved onto a USB drive then copied to/from the editor.

    iDr48/T-112/MADI

    #30901
    Profile photo of woutert
    woutert
    Participant

    quote:


    Originally posted by dburris

    Is this only happening with on-line editors? I haven’t noticed this when saved onto a USB drive then copied to/from the editor.

    iDr48/T-112/MADI


    It’s not so much about saving the show to disk. That works provided you have all the information. Where it goes wrong is when you’re saving all your scenes using one controller and then trying to save the whole show using another controller.
    It doesn’t really matter if the latter one is a hardware controller or an editor, you will notice that scene names are not stored centrally in the MixRack so you won’t see any of them on the second controller.
    This is most obvious with editors, since you can connect multiple, but it applies also to hardware controllers.

    Wouter
    IDR32, R72, Dante, Mixpad
    laptop, TP-Link TL-WR1043ND

    #30902
    Profile photo of Stix
    Stix
    Participant

    quote:


    Originally posted by Detonator

    I thought I would put this here… When a system is booted up, the last used scene becomes active, but there is no indication of which scene name or number that it is…


    You are not quite correct here Tim – when a system is booted the last desk “state” is recalled. The state it was when shut down. This might be the same as a scene but only if nothing has been changed since that scene was recalled. The mixer state is always a combination of the last recalled scene plus any active changes made since that recall. If you have made many many changes, done a mix config change etc then the current state will not resemble any scene until it is saved. That’s the reason there is no scene indication. An indication of the “Last recalled Scene” might be useful but may still be wildly different from the actual mixer “state”

    Cheers

    Richard Howey
    Audio Dynamite Ltd
    IDR48/IDR16/T112/R72/Mixpad,Tweak,
    Dual M-Dante/DVS, 17″MBP/Logic 9/Custom Mackie Control

    #30984
    Profile photo of vilddyr
    vilddyr
    Participant

    Come on A&H… Please fix this, this behavior and independence of mixrack/surface and editor is HORRIBLE!!!! Can’t begin to say how much easier it would make things, if everything was integrated properly.

    #31038
    Profile photo of mumu
    mumu
    Participant

    if i mix a show with console – last thing before shutdown i save the show – and then copy it to the usb – “home” i might do offline or online changes without console just the rack -then i have to recall the show in editor when i am done save the show-and in next time with console recall the show from the usb and if there is no time – scene manager.

    cheers
    dave

    allways latest firm and software
    iLive-144/t-80/idr-10 /idr-48/dante/pl-6/eyepad 1/belkin router/

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