Scene SAFES…WTF?!?!?!?

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This topic contains 15 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of woutert woutert 9 years, 6 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 16 total)
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  • #23063
    Profile photo of frozenwaffles
    frozenwaffles
    Participant

    Ok, what the f$&k is with scene safes not working?!
    This is now seriously a joke…they just don’t work!
    A&H please fix this ASAP!
    In the meantime please don’t use this function especially for a theatre show…it’s just **** and it’s really upsetting me.
    The whole scene system in this console needs a rework, otherwise just don’t even bother and just remove it.

    Perfect example is is… Patched a channel at the last minute for the talkback mic so VO’s can be made from FOH…recall safes the channel…go through the show…come to interval, go to use talkback mic channel and BOOM guess what…it’s not patched!

    Please fix this, pleeeaaaasssseee.

    Current stock:
    2x T112, 2x R72, 2x iDR-48, 2x iDR-16, 2x xDR-16
    4x Dante Cards, 3x ACE Cards

    #30252
    Profile photo of frozenwaffles
    frozenwaffles
    Participant

    Further to this… some things of recall safe work and others don’t, that’s what makes this even more fustrating… And there is a serious lack of documentation on how the scene system works…

    Current stock:
    2x T112, 2x R72, 2x iDR-48, 2x iDR-16, 2x xDR-16
    4x Dante Cards, 3x ACE Cards

    #30254
    Profile photo of Stealth
    Stealth
    Moderator

    Hi frozenwaffles

    Sorry that there has been some confusion with the Scene Safe system.

    quote:


    Perfect example is is… Patched a channel at the last minute for the talkback mic so VO’s can be made from FOH…recall safes the channel…go through the show…come to interval, go to use talkback mic channel and BOOM guess what…it’s not patched!


    I have looked into your problem about the talkback source being unpatched from an input/mix channel after a scene recall. The input/mix channel source safe’s are set in the ‘Patchbay’. To make sure that none of the input sources change during a scene recall you will need to make sure the ‘Patchbay’ scene safe button is highlighted green. This button is found in the sceen safe page under the tab ‘Other’.

    I will investigate improving the documentation for scene safe’s for the next release of firmware.

    Regards
    Sam A&H

    #30255
    Profile photo of Gijsbert
    Gijsbert
    Participant

    I do a lot of theatre shows, each with a lot of scenes, but i never had any problems. I have to admit i use scene safes as a last resort, but i never had any problems with that function either. I can imagine that your problem is really frustrating but your statement that you should not use scene safe in a theatre show is maybe a bit overdone.

    Good luck

    #30262
    Profile photo of frozenwaffles
    frozenwaffles
    Participant

    Hi gijsbert, my first question to you is how do you do a lot of theatre shows with iLive and not have fade times???
    Second… Sam…
    Ok so saving the patch bay fixes the talkback mic situation right now… But how do I deal with patch changes in the middle of the show?!?!?
    Why does safe’ing an entire channel not also safe it’s patch…. Right now we can’t safe the patch bay as there are changes during the show.
    Sam please report back to your software dev team and get the scene system sorted out. It’s a real mess and does not work very well at all….
    Also please have a good think about updating and how that should work better. And then document it :)
    Please go and use a Profile, PM5D or Digico and learn from some of the best consoles in the world. Don’t think I’m saying copy from them, but just understand the logic behind them becuasenilive scene logic is just not there…

    Current stock:
    2x T112, 2x R72, 2x iDR-48, 2x iDR-16, 2x xDR-16
    4x Dante Cards, 3x ACE Cards

    #30267
    Profile photo of woutert
    woutert
    Participant

    + 99999999999999999999 on scene fades! (at least levels)

    and parameter store templates instead of using update or “store all”
    I want “store <<MY parameter template name>>” so something like

    “Store Wouters Levels”
    “Store Wouters Patchbay”
    + indication of the template originally used (and an indication if it was modified)

    and the ability to make an AUX MIX scene safe!!!!

    AND UPDATE SHOULD HAVE THE OPTION TO ALWAYS UPDATE THE SCENE THAT WAS LAST RECALLED, DESPITE THE RECALL POINTER
    OR
    SHOULD GIVE A WARNING WHEN YOU’RE NOT UPDATING THE SCENE THAT WAS LAST RECALLED!

    sorry for the capitals, caps lock was on :-)

    Wouter
    IDR32, R72, Dante, Mixpad
    laptop, TP-Link TL-WR1043ND

    #30270
    Profile photo of VOLCANOJEFF
    VOLCANOJEFF
    Participant

    So My Question…Sounding like a dummy….Whats up with the scene fades for theatre. Keep in mind I dont do a lot of theatre. Mostly live bands and House of worship. Scene fades are great for lighting :0. Just asking because i am not up on the request for this feature or maybe even how it would be handled by the Audio Mixer.
    Just as an explanation. I have had a hard time with some of the scene safes and recalls. However with a bit of work starting to understand and adapt to the Allen and Heath method. Actually works quite well when setup properly. I likesome of the ideas of use gathered from some here on the forum. I still beleive that after sitting behid many other consoles of many different brand names, I-Live gives more bang for the Buck, and they do tend to listen to the user input from us here….Rock on

    JEFF FLOWERS
    VOLCANO ADUIO PRODUCTS
    SHEPHERDSVILLE KY-USA

    #30271
    Profile photo of Gijsbert
    Gijsbert
    Participant

    Every fade with the recorded sound i do in qlab or ableton. I have in every scene a lead vocal dca and a backing vocals dca. If they need any fading in or out, i do that by hand. I wouldn’t want it any other way, if someone is too late they are not faded in automaticly, if they are to early, i can turn it on earlier,without changing the rest of the scenes. If microphones are switcthed, i change the pre amp. They are not effected by scene recall. If i have to do 40 or something scenes i don’t wanna change the old mic to the spare mic every scene because the patch is recorded in the scene. In my scenes i have recorded: fader levels, mutes, fx mutes and levels and dca assignement. I do my soundcheck with a 0.5 scene, before the show. During a show i rarely change an eq of a voice, front of house or monitors. So they stay the same as they were during soundcheck (if it is not broken, don’t try to fix it)

    #30276
    Profile photo of frozenwaffles
    frozenwaffles
    Participant

    Wouters post… AMEN!

    Current stock:
    2x T112, 2x R72, 2x iDR-48, 2x iDR-16, 2x xDR-16
    4x Dante Cards, 3x ACE Cards

    #30277
    Profile photo of frozenwaffles
    frozenwaffles
    Participant

    as for everyone else… just put fade times in …. please?!?!?!

    Current stock:
    2x T112, 2x R72, 2x iDR-48, 2x iDR-16, 2x xDR-16
    4x Dante Cards, 3x ACE Cards

    #30280
    Profile photo of frozenwaffles
    frozenwaffles
    Participant

    Besides all this lets get back on topic and thats Safing and why it doenst work properly…
    Perefct example last night in thei musical. We ‘safed’ the EQ for the main performers and it worked right up till just before the end of ACT 1 (we were excited as it looked like ‘SAFING’ of some sort was actually going to work!) but then BAM! the EQs just go over written!

    I really do think there are bugs in the SAFE system and these need to be investigated…

    Current stock:
    2x T112, 2x R72, 2x iDR-48, 2x iDR-16, 2x xDR-16
    4x Dante Cards, 3x ACE Cards

    #30286
    Profile photo of Stealth
    Stealth
    Moderator

    Hi Frozen Waffles

    quote:


    Perefct example last night in thei musical. We ‘safed’ the EQ for the main performers and it worked right up till just before the end of ACT 1 (we were excited as it looked like ‘SAFING’ of some sort was actually going to work!) but then BAM! the EQs just go over written!


    We are not aware of this issue with the EQ SAFE. Could you please contact A&H technical Support and submit a helpdesk ticket they will be able to help you directly resolve your issue.

    http://allen-heath.helpserve.com/

    It would be helpful if you could include a copy of the show file and detail the exact scenes and attributes of the scene safe that are not working as you would expect.

    Wouter

    quote:


    and the ability to make an AUX MIX scene safe!!!!
    AND UPDATE SHOULD HAVE THE OPTION TO ALWAYS UPDATE THE SCENE THAT WAS LAST RECALLED, DESPITE THE RECALL POINTER
    OR
    SHOULD GIVE A WARNING WHEN YOU’RE NOT UPDATING THE SCENE THAT WAS LAST RECALLED!


    The ability to make an Aux Mix scene safe is possible, hold down the ‘SCENE SAFES’ button on the surface and then press the ‘MIX’ key on the mix channel you wish to make safe.

    I have also added your suggestions about the scene update process to the feature request list.

    Regards
    Sam A&H

    Regards
    Sam A&H

    #30289
    Profile photo of woutert
    woutert
    Participant

    quote:


    Originally posted by Stealth
    The ability to make an Aux Mix scene safe is possible, hold down the ‘SCENE SAFES’ button on the surface and then press the ‘MIX’ key on the mix channel you wish to make safe.


    As far as my experience goes this makes the settings of that mix channel ‘scene safe’ but not the mix itself, meaning, each individual send level to that mix.

    And that’s exactly what you want for instance to have monitor mixes not being influenced by scenes. While you don’t want to exclude the channel sends from the scenes because you want to save effects sends within a scene.

    That’s also why I proposed earlier on to distinguish effect sends and aux sends in the scene content. Mostly I want effect sends to be included in the scenes, I seldomly want a monitor send to be included in a scene. Ideally we could have all sends in the scene matrix and exactly indicate which send we want in our scene and which send not.

    Up till now the *only* way that I could achieve a separation was by patching all inputs to a second set of channels but that’s not always feasible.

    Wouter
    IDR32, R72, Dante, Mixpad
    laptop, TP-Link TL-WR1043ND

    #30291
    Profile photo of Stealth
    Stealth
    Moderator

    Hi Wouter

    You are correct, currently you cannot seperately safe each individual send to a mix.

    Though you can globally scene safe the send levels to an Aux Mix bus. This is the point I made.

    Regards
    Sam A&H

    #30295
    Profile photo of Oscar-Soderlund
    Oscar-Soderlund
    Participant

    A more advanced secene editing is something that needs total re-write, and this will take a new processor. So, I’ve just learn ed to make do.
    To work with what we’ve got.
    It’s still a low price system doing one hell of a job.

    If you need more advanced scene editing use DiGiCo orMidas.
    But they have other disadvantages…
    I have a SD10 in my rental fleet, but it’s always the iLive’s that is out working.
    And my weapon of choice for many reasons.

    Regarding working with what you got,

    One thing that’s been working great for me is.
    Recall safe a mix under 3-4 songs to make your monitor adjustments on soundcheck,
    and store each scene.
    And then exit recall safe for this mix and press next in your set-list and you have your
    changes saved to the songs you did.
    Or just have the mix recalled saved the whole show , do your changes and then lift safes.

    You can also take out everything from the scene structure and just save small amount of stuff, then the update process goes much faster.

    I have not have any problem with the recall safes?!

    It is what it is, and of course we all wait for a lot of stuff to be implemented into the iLive
    system.
    I meet with people at A&H 2 years ago discussing the scene editing and the demand
    from my clients regarding i.e. distortion fx’s.etc. Which it looks like it’s coming.
    Scene editing changes will realistically not surface until next generation of iLives.
    Which I personally think will be 1-2years away.

    THIS, despite…
    I still use iLive as my main companion and a lot of my clients favorite “JEEP” desk.

    If you need things thats not in iLive, use another desk…simple as that.
    I don’t think anyone bothers to mail Yamaha,
    prompting for them to make improvements on the LS9.

    Having said that, I think it’s important to come with ideas and criticism.
    Both negative and positive.

    Parashoot
    Sweden

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