Dante – cable length

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This topic contains 20 replies, has 11 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of ddff_lv ddff_lv 9 years, 6 months ago.

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  • #22976
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous

    Has anyone got any experience with Dante not working properly with long (around 80 m) cable runs?

    High quality Cat5-cable, 80 meters, 10 ms setting on DVS: random clicks/pops
    Very short cable, laptop next to stage rack: Dante working fine.

    Obviously it’s the cable. What kind of brand are you using?

    #29747
    Profile photo of Gijsbert
    Gijsbert
    Participant

    Cat 5 doesn’t support 1000mB speed, although your router, laptop etc. Say they have a 1 gigabit connection. It’s a grey area, cat 5 will run gigabit but not garanteed. Cat 6 cable should work according the standards. Look on the wikipedia for all the cable standards iso-norm etc.

    Maybe audinate has a recommended cable list….

    Good luck,

    Gijsbert

    #29748
    Profile photo of Gijsbert
    Gijsbert
    Participant

    Use at least cat 5E cable

    Cat3= 10 mB
    Cat5=10/100mB
    Cat5E=10/100/1000mB (short distances)
    Cat 6=100/1000mB

    #29749
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous

    Doh! Thank you, sir!

    #29750
    Profile photo of woutert
    woutert
    Participant

    Mmm, sounds more like clock source not being set correctly…
    Dante does not require gigabit network by default.
    Gigabit is only needed if the amount of channels requires more bandwith than can be handled by 100mbit network.

    Wouter
    IDR32, Dante, Mixpad
    laptop, TP-Link TL-WR1043ND

    #29751
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous

    Everything was set correctly, including clock source etc.
    As i wrote – long cable: clicks/pops, short cable: working.

    I was recording 42 channels of audio, and by default my laptop/DVS chose gigabit network.

    #29752
    Profile photo of gilparente
    gilparente
    Participant

    Hi Kole,
    What Wouter was saying makes sense. Just because one cable is working and the other one isnt, it doesnt mean it is a cable length issue. I had my system set up and i was having the same issues, except my pops and clicks were on the “short” cable side of the system. Once i fixed my clocking issues, everything worked fine.

    Start by making sure that “sync to external clock” on the dante controller is selected for the dante card that is on your console. At least that was the problem that i had.

    Gil Parente
    Design & Integration
    Entertainment Arts, Inc.

    #29753
    Profile photo of ahjeff
    ahjeff
    Moderator

    Hi All

    Gigabit Ethernet is designed to work in existing Cat5/Cat5e/Cat6 infrastructure, at up to 100 meters. The problem with this specification from an audio point of view is that a certain bit error rate is allowed at this length. For most IT applications, any transmission errors are recovered by TCP/IP, by retransmitting the information. With Dante or any low latency multichannel audio over Ethernet protocol that I’m aware of, bit errors will always correspond to missing or repeated audio samples at the receiving device, as there is not time to go back and wait for the sample to be transmitted again. For this reason, it is not safe to assume that 100 meters (or any particular length, really) will be error free in all scenarios. For ACE, A&H manufacture every device using the same hardware, so we are able to approve a list of cables that all work to a certain distance. In the case of Dante, this is not really possible, as laptops, switches, and other devices you may be using, can use any of dozens of possible Ethernet interface chips, creating hundreds of possible combinations of hardware that would all have to be tested if we were to be able to gurantee some particular cable type and length will work without errors.

    This is not all that helpful for you guys trying to set systems up. Assuming that good quality cable is being used, the main cause of errors will be poorly (I really mean ‘not perfectly’ here) terminated connectors, so if you have a longer cable that doesn’t seem to work properly, you could try recrimping the connectors, making sure to only untwist the bare minimum of each conductor pair, and to get the ends of the conductors right to the end of the RJ45 plug (you can check this by holding the end of the plug up to the light and looking to see that all the shiny conductor ends reflect together). Another thing you might be able to try is to use the cable diagnostic feature that some Ethernet interfaces provide as part of their software drivers. The more sophisitcated implementations will tell you if there are any imperfections in the cable simply by running a short test with the cable plugged into the computer.

    In general, with good quality cable and Ethernet hardware, you should be able to run 100 meters and never have an error. I suppose I just wanted to explain why you can’t simply look at the Ethernet spec and say “100 meters will work”, no matter what.

    Hope this helps.

    Cheers

    – Jeff, A&H

    #29754
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous

    quote:


    Originally posted by gilparente

    Start by making sure that “sync to external clock” on the dante controller is selected for the dante card that is on your console. At least that was the problem that i had.


    I’m aware of that, I’m not a complete ignorant… [:)]

    Not sure I like what Jeff is writing, but it makes me wanna stick to the short cable when I’m recording!

    #29755
    Profile photo of woutert
    woutert
    Participant

    Kole,
    Is it doable to give us a list of all settings that you were using.
    I hope to learn from this, or give a hint if possible.
    I also need the network latency, which is not the Dvs latency, exact connections, exzct clock source settings on all devices…

    Wouter
    IDR32, Dante, Mixpad
    laptop, TP-Link TL-WR1043ND

    #29756
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous

    quote:


    Originally posted by woutert

    Kole,
    Is it doable to give us a list of all settings that you were using.
    I hope to learn from this, or give a hint if possible.
    I also need the network latency, which is not the Dvs latency, exact connections, exzct clock source settings on all devices…


    Of course, I’ll see if i can remember:

    T80 + IDR48, internal clock
    Network latency: tried both standard-setting (?) and 5 ms safe mode
    Dante Control panel: ticked on “preferred master” and “slave to external wordclock”
    DVS: setup for 64 i/o, 10 ms latency, 48 khz
    DAW: Macbook Pro 2,66 ghz, 4 gb ram, 7200 rpm HD, Reaper 4, recording 42 channels of audio. 40 channels from mixrack input + L/R ref. mix.
    OS X network settings: DHCP

    DVS/control panel recognized the network connection as gigabit.

    And again: short cable working (no clicks/pops at all), long cable not working (clicks/pops approx. every 10 seconds on random tracks)

    Next time, i’m gonna try out Cat6 og Cat5e.

    #29757
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous

    By the way, the Dante primary port was connected directly to my laptop. No switches/hubs/anything in the signal path.

    #29759
    Profile photo of CMattE
    CMattE
    Participant

    What computer are you using to record? I use a Mac Mini and if I leave Airport on I get clicks and pops. Turn it off and everything is fine. So if you have your wi-fi card on, and can turn it off, you might try that and see if it helps.

    I too thought it was a long cable run, but it still persisted with a 10 ft (3m) cable. I just started trouble shooting and remembered that being a recommended step for Pro Tools LE. Even though I’m using reaper I thought I’d try. Sure enough. Wi-fi off and click/pops are gone too.

    T112/48, MacBook Pro, D-link DIR-815, iPad 1 w/mixpad, Dante card feeding a Mac Mini w/DVS.

    #29762
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous

    quote:


    Originally posted by CMattE

    What computer are you using to record? I use a Mac Mini and if I leave Airport on I get clicks and pops. Turn it off and everything is fine. So if you have your wi-fi card on, and can turn it off, you might try that and see if it helps.

    I too thought it was a long cable run, but it still persisted with a 10 ft (3m) cable. I just started trouble shooting and remembered that being a recommended step for Pro Tools LE. Even though I’m using reaper I thought I’d try. Sure enough. Wi-fi off and click/pops are gone too.

    T112/48, MacBook Pro, D-link DIR-815, iPad 1 w/mixpad, Dante card feeding a Mac Mini w/DVS.


    MacBook Pro, as written in my previous post. I too turned off wifi every time, mostly because I was thinking wifi would confuse DHCP/IP-adresses…

    #29763
    Profile photo of Biggsounds
    Biggsounds
    Participant

    This is probably obvious, but some of my initial problems came from having anti-virus software active (network threat detection in particular), I always make sure it’s disabled before I start a DVS session (I double check every time, as it has a habit of restarting itself even if I’ve previously turned the damn thing off!).

    Adam Biggs
    iDR48 mixrack
    MixRack for iPad & Tweak for iPhone apps
    Asus N61 Laptop (x2 wireless)
    Windows 7 Pro 64bit
    with Belkin PlayMax N600 HD router
    Dante card tracking into Reaper with playback via FooBar

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