Drum Monitor Mix

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This topic contains 12 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of dnxmirrorsounds dnxmirrorsounds 10 years, 8 months ago.

Viewing 13 posts - 1 through 13 (of 13 total)
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  • #22448
    Profile photo of Piehead
    Piehead
    Participant

    Hi,

    As well as looking after our iLive T112 and iDR48 I am also a drummer. I would really like to set the system up so I can adjust my own mix via my laptop. It seems to me that if I run Editor and hit the Mix button on my Aux this will also affect the surface which could cause problems if there is no communication (ok during soundcheck maybe but not during performance). What is the solution to this? If I can’t control my own mix I would at least like control over all the drum channels and click etc. (8 to 10 channels in my mix only). I’m looking at a solution that uses no additional equipment but will consider other options too. I’m aware of Aviom and similar products but we’re not ready to go that route yet.

    Thanks for your help [:)]

    Piehead

    #26301
    Profile photo of ddff_lv
    ddff_lv
    Participant

    Have you checked out the PL-Anet stuff? There is one that should do the job – PL 10
    http://www.idrseries.com/pl-series.asp

    ddff

    #26302
    Profile photo of Piehead
    Piehead
    Participant

    Hi,

    Yes, I have looked at the PL controllers and there may be another discussion about the merits/cost of these compared to Aviom at a later date. In the meantime I want to explore the possibilities using my laptop.

    Thanks

    Piehead

    #26303
    Profile photo of mdsaudio
    mdsaudio
    Participant

    There should be no problem as the editor and surface can work independantly. You can adjust your mix while the surface is doing the FOH mix at the same time.
    Darren

    #26304
    Profile photo of Biggsounds
    Biggsounds
    Participant

    As above, I wouldn’t think it’s an issue, as long as the FOH engineer knows what you’re doing – depending on how many channels you’re using for the mix you might even consider mirroring your inputs (say, using channels 33-64), setting to show trims on the Editor surface, and setting your monitor mix post fade – that way you can control individual channel eq etc as well as overall aux tuning…just a thought! I guess you’d set up a custom strip too, just to make sure you didn’t make any accidental changes?

    iDR32 mixrack
    Asus N61 Laptop (x2 wireless)
    Sennheiser IEM (for PFL)
    Dante card (soon!)

    #26307
    Profile photo of RayS
    RayS
    Participant

    quote:


    Originally posted by Biggsounds

    As above, I wouldn’t think it’s an issue, as long as the FOH engineer knows what you’re doing – depending on how many channels you’re using for the mix you might even consider mirroring your inputs (say, using channels 33-64), setting to show trims on the Editor surface, and setting your monitor mix post fade – that way you can control individual channel eq etc as well as overall aux tuning…just a thought! I guess you’d set up a custom strip too, just to make sure you didn’t make any accidental changes?


    As Biggsounds said……mirroring and custom strips with trims on surface…….

    RayS

    #26311
    Profile photo of gilparente
    gilparente
    Participant

    Hi Piehead,

    You can use the Custom Layer inside Editor, and pretty much the FOH guy won’t see what you are doing, unless he is looking for it.
    The Custom Bank in Editor is completely independent from the Surface.
    I’ve actually used a T112 and iDR48 with 2 computers running editors at the same time, each with its own custom bank. No problems.
    This should be the cheapest way to go.
    Hope this helps.

    Gil Parente
    Design & Integration
    Entertainment Arts, Inc.

    #26319
    Profile photo of Piehead
    Piehead
    Participant

    Thanks for your help everyone, I’m going to try a few things this weekend.

    Just to clarify, to mirror the inputs do I set up some new channels patched to the same inputs? I’ve done this in editor and so I now have my kit over channels 1-10 and these are replicated on 51-60, am I doing this right?

    Thanks again and keep the ideas coming if there are any more :)

    Pie

    #26324
    Profile photo of Biggsounds
    Biggsounds
    Participant

    That’s right – I’d assume you’ll want more than your kit in there, but the principle stays the same – mirror the inputs (i.e. select the channel strip preamp section & simply assign the input to be the same as your actual drum inputs on the iDR), set that channel to show ‘trim’ on the surface (so you don’t accidentally mess with the FOH mix) and setup whatever you’ll need in a custom strip: the required channels, whichever Aux fader you’ll need, and anything else you require (eg are you using one of the FX busses for your monitor mix?) – every time you open editor that custom strip should be there ready to go…
    Again, if you set the Aux to post fade you’ll have control over individual channel EQs etc, and as you’ll be the only one controlling these strips you can just set them to unity gain on the fader, and mix as per usual on the Aux mix controls…
    I’ve been thinking about this kind of setup as I’ve got a touring act coming in October & I’ll be on stage running monitors from a laptop side of stage doing exactly as I’ve described (except I’ll be controlling 6-8 sends of monitors, but the concept’s the same)…

    iDR32 mixrack
    Asus N61 Laptop (x2 wireless)
    Sennheiser IEM (for PFL)
    Dante card (soon!)

    #26332
    Profile photo of Piehead
    Piehead
    Participant

    Thanks Biggsounds [:D]

    You are correct, I will want more than just the drum channels in there but I was worried about running out of channels. I was thinking of the inputs on the mix rack but in actual fact, there are 64 channels available.

    If I didn’t want to share gain, how could I do that? I don’t think I need this but I want to understand the principle. I’m guessing that some sort of splitter is required?

    Thanks again

    Piehead

    #26335
    Profile photo of Biggsounds
    Biggsounds
    Participant

    If you do it in this (accepted) way you’re stuck with sharing gain… but then again how much difference would you need to have with the FOH engineer?
    Let me back up – is this system always being used by the same group/engineer? If so, you’d assume that the gain settings are reasonably static from show to show – in that case the FOH engineer may be open to setting trims on surface at FOH too (once the gains have been set with a reasonable amount of headroom), which means you’re not going to get any sudden changes from them adjusting the head amp.
    You’re right, if you don’t want to share gain you’re down to splitting your signal pre the iDR (i.e. into separate inputs), but I’d suggest you’d find it easier to have this conversation with your engineer than anyone on here ;)

    iDR32 mixrack
    Asus N61 Laptop (x2 wireless)
    Sennheiser IEM (for PFL)
    Dante card (soon!)

    #26336
    Profile photo of Piehead
    Piehead
    Participant

    Hi,

    I’m happy with gain sharing as all I want to do is push the faders myself rather than have the engineer do it. As it stands, any change in gain would affect my monitor mix anyway and most of the time the engineer gets things right during soundcheck so there are no problems. By using the methods mentioned I will have more control and given that the kit has lots of channels this is important. Being stuck behind a drum screen doesn’t help with communication so this will be much better. As I said before, I manage the sound team and engineer too so I get the benefit of seeing both sides.

    I think I’m pretty much done here now so thanks again for all the contributions [:)]

    Piehead

    #26351
    Profile photo of dnxmirrorsounds
    dnxmirrorsounds
    Participant

    We frequently use 2 editors on stage independent of the surface mix. PAFL gets shared so don’t use that but mixes are independent (in the way you are using it).

    interestingly, recently we ran foldback (8 x IEM + 2 speaker sends) from the editor (with an additional monitor) and a second system mixing another mix for the overflow room down stairs.

    all went well although running foldback on editor is frustratingly slow.

    Duncan Whitcombe
    Mirror Sounds & metrochurch
    Perth, Australia
    T112, iDR48x2, Dante soon
    http://www.mirrorsounds.com.au
    http://www.metrochurch.org.au

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