System Processor

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This topic contains 11 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of kentlowt kentlowt 10 years, 12 months ago.

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  • #22369
    Profile photo of jheimberg
    jheimberg
    Participant

    Hello – we’ve just ordered a t112/idr48 for a church install we’ll be doing next month. I have a few questions regarding the possibilities of this combo.

    The first is – being as there is built in delay and EQ on the outs, is there any reason to use an external system processor? This is a relatively simple system, powered mains & subs, and would only need a basic time alignment and sub crossover – how do I do that on board?

    Second – is it possible to setup the laptop editor software via vpn to an off-site computer? Reason being – after the system is setup, I am 14 hours away from the install, I would like to be able to look in and fix/modify things down the road.

    Thanks in advance!

    http://www.soundadvicetraining.com

    #25765
    Profile photo of letmefix
    letmefix
    Participant

    Your remote connectivity style depends on the church’s Internet connectivity and network.

    If you can provide us their Internet/network situation I might be able to make some suggestions.

    Does the church’s Internet connection have a static IP?Firewall?
    Are you able to plug IDR48 to their network without any restriction?
    Does their network have a DHCP server?

    Do you want to connect to IDR48 directly or is it ok to connect to a computer that is already running ilive editor?

    So, more details you provide more we can talk.

    Burak

    #25766
    Profile photo of jheimberg
    jheimberg
    Participant

    The install is in a building with no existing network, and the iLive will be the only networked device at that location, so we can build the network to suit.

    We’ll install an internet connection, security enabled router w/wifi for laptop ‘monitor land’, and then have the option of remote login.

    It seems the simplest would be to be able to connect to the IDR directly, rather than to another PC already connected, but maybe not, thoughts?

    http://www.soundadvicetraining.com

    #25771
    Profile photo of schaibaa
    schaibaa
    Participant

    Hi Jonathan!

    Accessing the idr via outside network can be accomplished in a few ways — the easist, but least secure is probably to forward whatever ports the editor uses from your outside-ip to your idr ip. This is called port forwarding, or sometimes called putting the idr on the dmz. If you plan to have a standard broadband internet connection with a router, then just forward the ports the IDR uses to the idr ip in your router.. should be simple enough.

    The problem with that, is that anyone can jump on remotely by pointing their editor instance at your external IP. The better solution would be to install a VPN product (there are some open source versions) — vpn into the network so that your PC is then connected on that network, then you would be able to access the IDR via local IP.

    #25777
    Profile photo of jheimberg
    jheimberg
    Participant

    Ok, that makes sense.

    NEXT question: About output routing/etc.

    At the install, there’s three stages: From left to right, stage L is a band, Stage C is drama, Stage R is a band. Low ceilings/amateurs/etc all conspire for feedback possibilities. My thoughts were to route the drama lavs and headsets in such a way that they are feeding a lower signal (or none at all) to the speaker directly above the ‘drama’ stage, but still feed all the rest, and make it invisible to the operator what’s happening.

    How would I go about this? Obviously I’ll need to have each speaker (powered boxes) connected to discreet outputs, but what are the things I need to be looking at in the iLive?

    http://www.soundadvicetraining.com

    #25778
    Profile photo of schaibaa
    schaibaa
    Participant

    I’d use some post-everything auxes to feed the necessary speakers discretely. Anything wrong with that?

    #25779
    Profile photo of jheimberg
    jheimberg
    Participant

    Can I make it invisible to the user? I want the guy at the desk to just be able to grab the appropriate faders, and if it happens to be one of the lav mics, the feeds/levels are proportionally different than for a different channel.

    In my mind (too bad the mixing isn’t done there) I would think that creating a different mix matrix that the lav’s subgroup was assigned to would work – but not having had my hands on the desk yet I don’ know how that would work.

    http://www.soundadvicetraining.com

    #25785
    Profile photo of schaibaa
    schaibaa
    Participant

    Yeah, just set the auxes post-everything. Sounds like a perfect situation to use an aux.

    In the majority of the higher end consoles, the differences between an aux and a matrix are essentially nil. I would use post fade auxes and set the post point to after everything. You could even setup the aux and then pull it off the channel strip if you want – that way it can’t be messed with.

    You could very well use a matrix as well — in this case there may be no difference. I believe with matrixes you may not choose where you take the signal (post HPF, post eq, post comp, etc) but I could be wrong. In this case since you want post everything you might as well use a matrix if that’s the way you prefer to think about them, but it’s the same as an aux with slightly less flexibility.

    #25786
    Profile photo of jheimberg
    jheimberg
    Participant

    Ok, makes sense.

    As I’m thinking about it, isn’t what I’m trying to achieve very similar to LCR panning? Is that generally set up as thee discreet signals, or do L&R sum for C?

    http://www.soundadvicetraining.com

    #25787
    Profile photo of timtrace
    timtrace
    Participant

    I don’t know how well the Editor will work over a long-haul connection, or any other device management application for that matter. For example, when the Editor loses connection to the iDR it can take more than a minute to return control.

    My recommendation is to use Windows Terminal Services aka Remote Desktop. I sometimes call it RDP – remote desktop protocol.

    The TS protocol is hardened and easily meets your security requirements. It’s robust over slow and unstable connections. It’s highly compatible with a number of clients, including those for Windows, Linux, Mac, iPhone and Blackberry systems.

    All you’ll need to do is to stand up a Windows workstation inside the church, where it can see the iDR over the network. Configure remote desktop to allow access from outside the subnet. Then, on your router, port-forward TCP 3389 from the router’s outside interface to the internal IP address of the workstation. You should then be able connect to the public IP of the router with any TS client, and a window with the workstation’s desktop will appear on your computer. From there you can run any application that’s installed on the workstation. Nifty!

    Before you implement, you should read up on enhancing the security of TS through the functionality which already exists in the Windows OS. You can change the listening port; enforce high security, etc etc etc. You’ll find tech notes all over the Internet on this subject.

    #25795
    Profile photo of schaibaa
    schaibaa
    Participant

    quote:


    Originally posted by jheimberg

    Ok, makes sense.

    As I’m thinking about it, isn’t what I’m trying to achieve very similar to LCR panning? Is that generally set up as thee discreet signals, or do L&R sum for C?

    http://www.soundadvicetraining.com


    Yes this is very similar, and before desks were built to understand LCR, people just used an aux. Either one would work, the L/C/R may feel more integrated into the workflow which might be good – or bad (if you want to reduce it’s visibility/control/etc).

    Also, Tim is right — over slow internet connections you would be better off using rdp to a local PC.

    #25797
    Profile photo of kentlowt
    kentlowt
    Participant

    quote:


    Originally posted by jheimberg

    The first is – being as there is built in delay and EQ on the outs, is there any reason to use an external system processor? This is a relatively simple system, powered mains & subs, and would only need a basic time alignment and sub crossover – how do I do that on board?

    Thanks in advance!

    http://www.soundadvicetraining.com


    One issue I can see with this is someone running the mixer could easily accidentally or on purpose change your delay and crossover settings and mess up the whole ball of wax unless you set it all up on the admin log in password it and then created another profile with limited access for everyone else. There is also the issue of the adequacy of the eq as a crossover. Would a small inexpensive system processor break the bank? They are already purchasing a $20k mixer.

    112T/IDR48/IDR16

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