scenes save

This topic contains 21 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of dschmoldt dschmoldt 10 years, 7 months ago.

Viewing 7 posts - 16 through 22 (of 22 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #26525
    Profile photo of RayS
    RayS
    Participant

    quote:


    Originally posted by woutert

    I agree with the fact that some sort of multi-update possibility must exist but… the question is also: why put monitor EQ or room EQ in all the scenes in the first place. A&H designed the current scene system with a kind of a setup-scene and a series of track scenes in mind.

    That way, monitor EQ, room EQ and things like preamp gain would most of the times only need to be stored in that one global setup scene.

    Wouter


    Woutert, I have to disagree with your last statement……in the example used in most theatre settings when one singer is replaced by a sub, for part of a run, that equals different EQ for sure….and therefore should be in all scenes if needed…….same with pre amp gain……like I said both digico SD8-9 and digidesign venue/profile have implemented very decent scene management, no need to reinvent the wheel at that level until ILive’s scenes gets there!

    RayS

    #26526
    Profile photo of woutert
    woutert
    Participant

    quote:


    Originally posted by RayS

    …in the example used in most theatre settings when one singer is replaced by a sub, for part of a run, that equals different EQ for sure….and therefore should be in all scenes if needed… same with pre amp gain….like I said both digico SD8-9 and digidesign venue/profile have implemented very decent scene management, no need to reinvent the wheel at that level until ILive’s scenes gets there!


    I agree that we should not reinvent and an update scope is indeed necessary. What I wanted to say was that so far I’m not completely against the iLive concept of only putting things in a scene “if you really want to change them”. The way that is accomplished is still too complicated however.

    In the story with the different casts for theater, in the iLive world this would mean just making a copy of the setup scene and adjusting the EQ and gain for that cast member in that scene and, why not, store it for that specific cast.

    But even that isn’t perfect, not in iLive and, as far as I know, although better, also not in Digico scene management.

    Scene management should IMO be splitted into mix setup (gains, general EQ, basic moitor mix) and on the other side real scenes. The setup part should ideally offer cast management for musicals so you can just indicate the cast for that night. (Using some kind of stored channel settings for instance)

    Both “real” and setup scenes should offer a kind of a variant system and at least some sort of versioning. Just to be clear, I don’t mean that “real” scenes” cannot contain any EQ changes.

    Let’s keep on talking about “ideal scene management”. It’s in our interrest that A&H know what we really need :-)

    regards,
    Wouter

    #26527
    Profile photo of lawbass61
    lawbass61
    Participant

    What I am envisioning for scene EQ is that I would like to be able to write the show (which mics are on/off) etc a week or two before starting rehearsals. However, currently I can’t really do that, because the first thing I have to do upon loading into a new venue is to EQ the room/wedges, etc. If I do that, then I have to then go thru each scene that I have written and update the room or wedge EQ’s. This is tedious, and kind of defeats the purpose of pre-writing the show scene by scene into a show.

    Jonathan Wade
    Suburban Legend Audio

    #26530
    Profile photo of kentlowt
    kentlowt
    Participant

    quote:


    Originally posted by lawbass61

    What I am envisioning for scene EQ is that I would like to be able to write the show (which mics are on/off) etc a week or two before starting rehearsals. However, currently I can’t really do that, because the first thing I have to do upon loading into a new venue is to EQ the room/wedges, etc. If I do that, then I have to then go thru each scene that I have written and update the room or wedge EQ’s. This is tedious, and kind of defeats the purpose of pre-writing the show scene by scene into a show.

    Jonathan Wade
    Suburban Legend Audio


    Why not just exclude the room/wedge eq from all of your scenes that way it never gets touched by the scenes? You could either untick it in the save options or safe it so the scenes won’t overwrite it. (Unless I am missing something in what you are wanting to do.)

    112T/IDR48/IDR16

    #26531
    Profile photo of woutert
    woutert
    Participant

    I really agree with Kentlowt on this.

    Just like Kentlowt says: you should store room and wedge EQ only once in a separate “setup” scene, and indeed exclude EQ from the “real scenes” unless you need it for some dramatic effect.

    I generally start with just faders, sends and mutes in the scenes, and I just add what I really want to change in a scene.

    regards,
    Wouter

    #26532
    Profile photo of RayS
    RayS
    Participant

    inherently different implementation of doing the “same” thing…ILive updates by selective exclusion of parameters and others do it by selective inclusion…..or is it the other way around?? with some planning ahead the ILive does a good job of it ….but its not always possible……I inherited a show where all the scenes contained all the parameters!!!…….now if I want selective updating I need to tediously go back thru all the 40 or so scenes and make changes…long and tedious even with the copy and paste type commands……that’s where a simple shift/click would come in handy…….so I could at least select multiple scenes and adjust a parameter in all selected……

    I do like the separate “split” setup scene/real scene scenario though……sort of Global and Local type editing of scenes…..

    RayS

    #26534
    Profile photo of dschmoldt
    dschmoldt
    Participant

    My two cents on iLive scene management.

    I tend to only store faders, mutes, colors, and other basics in scenes. That leaves me free to adjust EQ and processing on the fly, or for a sub actor, etc. That works fine for me. I’ve also noticed that scene storing and recall is MUCH quicker that way than for a scene that stores all parameters.

    My biggest beefs are in the recalling of scenes. If I was mixing for a band and had maybe one scene recall per song, the current scene management wouldn’t be a big deal. But I’m often running scenes for musical theater, and in some songs I may be recalling, tweaking levels, updating and then recalling the next scene every few bars. So even simple interface changes that would eliminate keystrokes would be a huge plus. A few:

    On my DM1000, I am able to run a show (usually using SFX to recall scenes) without even having the scene manager on screen. There were dedicated hardware keys to advance scenes AND save settings. To update/save settings on my iLive, you have to use the Scene Manager screen. It’s the only way to update scenes. So the screen become pretty much dedicated to the Scene Manager out of necessity. So the ability to assign the soft keys to Update Current scene and Store All Current Scene would be a great improvement.

    Also, the current scene recalled should ALWAYS be highlighted on the scene list, even if it was recalled through MIDI … that way, if I want to update it before moving on to the next scene, it’s a simple touch of the Update button before hitting GO in SFX. Currently, when I recall a scene from SFX, the highlight does not move to the current scene. It stays on whatever scene was last selected from the scene manager itself. So I have to manually cursor to highlight the current scene before I can Update it. I can’t just hit the Update screen button to update the current scene … it never highlighted that scene when it was recalled from SFX.

    That one seemingly simple make-the-highlight-follow-the-current-scene-from-MIDI bug is such a problem that I’ve had to stop using SFX for Scene recall. The chances of accidentally Updating the wrong scene are too high. So I use the Next/Go buttons on the iLive, but that prevents me from hopping around and re-using scenes like I can from SFX. I tend to have the same scene change mics out cue multiple places in the show. With SFX, I can recall the exact same “blackout” scene multiple times during the show. When using the iLive scene recall buttons, I pretty much have to duplicate that scene multiple times and waste scenes. The show basically has to be in sequential scene order so I can run it with Next/GO.

    Using the dedicated scene recall keys is currently a two-press process. Use the Next key to select the next scene, then hit the GO button to recall it. I’d love to see an option to have the GO button do the Advance/GO in a single GO press. Sounds stupid, but there are some songs where I’m recalling scenes literally every few notes or bars, and condensing things down to a single GO press would be a huge help in avoiding keying mistakes. Throw in a few sound effects from SFX at the same time, and I’m running two parallel GO buttons … one in SFX and one on iLive. So having the iLive auto-advance to the next loaded cue when I hit GO would be huge. And seemingly simple to add as an option. I know it’s been requested multiple times on these forums.

    The iLive is a great board, and I love using it. But the Scene Manager is still a few updates away from being as non-intrusive as it should be. :) It should be second nature to run a show, and right now it’s got too many possibilities to mess up.

    David Schmoldt

Viewing 7 posts - 16 through 22 (of 22 total)

The forum ‘Archived iLive Discussions’ is closed to new topics and replies.