Topic: About ethernet/madi cable | Allen & Heath Digital Community

About ethernet/madi cable

This topic contains 10 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by Dave 13 years ago.

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2010/02/14 at 3:04 pm #22265

alain
Participant

Hi,
I’m looking all another parts i need for working well with my future idr48.
In my search i found a cable with audio and 2x ethernet Cat6 UTP.
The dealer give this electrical data for Cat6: D.C.R@20°C <68,5ohm/Km
Capacitance: 50pF/m. Nominal impedance: 100ohm

I looking https://www.ilive-digital.com/cables.html and see the recommanded cable is Cat5e STP.

My question: ACE and ethernet control for IDR48 can working well with Cat6 UTP, or really need Cat5e?

The other cable i found is multi coax video, with 5x 75ohm.
Electrical data is: D.C.R: 180ohm/Km, Capacitance: 59pF/m, Attenuance/100m: 4,8db/5Mhz, 6,6db/10Mhz, 10,8/20Mhz, 14db/50Mhz, 22,6db/100Mhz.

It’s a good cable for madi and world clock signal?

Alain

2010/02/15 at 12:36 pm #25201

ahjeff
Moderator

Hi Alain

For ACE, we can only recommend the cables listed on our cabling page which you linked to, as these are the cables we have tested for compliance with EMC regulations when used with our products. For Cat5/6 cable, figures like capacitance and DCR are not that reliable as cable metrics – other factors such as twist uniformity and pair separation are important, and are not normally specified. For this reason you cannot really tell from the published data if a particular cable will work at 120 meters. Your Cat6 cable may well work, but we cannot say what cable length might be reliable with it, and can only recommend cables tested by us, due to the EMC regulations.

For MADI, pretty much any 75-ohm coax cable will work for ‘standard’ distances (the MADI standard is up to 50m). Comparing your cable to the 1505A that we tested with, it is not very good, so you should look for something better if you want to send your MADI signal over longer distances. The spec for the 1505A is https://www.belden.com/pdfs/03Belden_Master_Catalog/06Coaxial_Cables/06.29_30.pdf . When looking at the cable spec, note that the shield type and coverage is relevant, not just attenuation figures.

As with MADI, Word Clock will work with any 75-ohm coax cable. Cable distance will depend on the receiving device – if you are using the A&H MADI card to receive word clock, you should be able to use 100+ meters. We tested 300 meters using the Belden 1305A. If you are sending wordclock to a third party device, you will have to consult their documentation.

Cheers

– Jeff, A&H

2010/02/15 at 5:44 pm #25204

alain
Participant

Ok Jeff, i understands
Thank you for these explanations

I want to build a 50m snake.

I don’t know if i can purchase belden for the good price.
I’m freelance for many sound rental society, and of course i’m buying cable in one of her to have the best price.
Here the most cable you can found is “eurocable” but i can see for “Klotz” too.

Klotz just have a new audio/network cable specially for ilive ;)the RC5S-B2A2.
For the madi and worldclock i think buying this: https://www.klotz-ais.com/quickorder/artikelpdf/RG11__f.pdf or of course 1505A if i can, but buy everything from the same place made lower the price (like shipping cost).
It’s for A&H m-madi and my RME HDSPe-madi.

Question for ilive user:

What’s you having in your snake?
I think the minimum is 2 Cat5 (1 for ace and 1 for pc-control), in my way 3 coax (madi in/out and wc) and 1 power.
A few pairs of audio and…what else?

Alain

2010/02/16 at 9:25 am #25205

ahjeff
Moderator

Hi Alain

The Klotz cable you linked to seems OK if you’re only going 50 meters. It’s also stranded so it should be more reliable. For your MADI ‘snake’, you don’t actually need word clock – both the A&H MADI card and the RME HDSPe-MADI can sync from the MADI stream itself – the word clock is really for older devices which cannot sync from the MADI stream (although there is no problem in you using the word clock if you prefer).

We have a sample of the RC5S-B2A2 ‘iLive’ cable, and could not understand what it is really for. If you want to control the system using a laptop or similar, you can just plug it into the surface network ports, and the control is bridged down the ACE link. Similarly, sending audio to/from the surface position can be achieved with the i/o on the back of the surface, using the outputs page.

Klotz RC5 is one of our recommended cables, so that would be a good choice.

Cheers

– Jeff, A&H

2010/02/16 at 2:28 pm #25207

Mr-B
Participant

Forget copper go fibre goes further and weighs less[8D]

2010/02/16 at 7:28 pm #25208

alain
Participant

Hi Jeff,
Again thank’s, you take a time for me and it’s pleasant[]

I found a Belden 1505A in society i’m working.
Guys says to me he have too 1305A in stock.
He use this cable and says to me it’s working very well for 100m, but he working with ethersound system, not ACE.
I think if it’s good for ethersound it’s good for ACE too, i’m right?

For the word clock, one day i’m working with yamaha DM2000 and the guys working in rental society use one apoogee bigben. I don’t know why but the sound is better.
It’s same result with IDR? I can’t check for this time, but if answer is yes i’m happy to building my snake with 3x 75ohm, and the standard lengths for order it’s 150m, so it’s easy to build 3x50m

Mr B, my first idea is using fibre, very good for galvanic isolation, but A&H M-MADI doesn’t have this, only bnc.

2010/02/17 at 10:02 am #25209

ahjeff
Moderator

Hi Alain

The 1305A is a good cable, but as mentioned above, we can only officially recommend the cables listed on our cables page.

Some people prefer to use an external word clock, on some desks it makes a big difference. With iLive, we haven’t found that they make a noticeable difference, but others may disagree.

If you want to use optical for MADI, you could try the SSL Opto-Coax https://www.solid-state-logic.com/Music/Xlogic%20MADI%20Opti-Coax/index.asp or the RME MADI Bridge https://www.rme-audio.de/en_products_madi_bridge.php . We have customers who have successfully used both of these with the A&H MADI card.

Cheers

– Jeff, A&H

2011/04/14 at 7:34 am #27978

simonmoy
Participant

quote:

Originally posted by alain
…
I looking https://www.ilive-digital.com/cables.html and see the recommanded cable is Cat5e STP.
…
Alain

The ‘iLive Cables’ page has moved. It is now at https://www.allen-heath.com/ilive/system/cables.

2011/04/14 at 9:40 am #27979

rreuscher
Participant

Hi all,

At the moment I’m using a Klotz HybridCable (Klotz HC52P15) 2x ethernet CAT5A + 3×1,5mm2. I’m using at a lenght of 60m witohut any problems for a while now. One Cat5 is used for the ACE connection. The other I will use dedicated for Dante over GigaBit LAN…. when Dante will arive !!
The cable is only 16.1mm in diameter.

Regards, Rene

Nothing is completly true, and even that’s not true.

2011/04/15 at 2:41 am #27980

jimvoyager
Participant

quote:

Originally posted by rreuscher

Hi all,

At the moment I’m using a Klotz HybridCable (Klotz HC52P15) 2x ethernet CAT5A + 3×1,5mm2. I’m using at a lenght of 60m witohut any problems for a while now. One Cat5 is used for the ACE connection. The other I will use dedicated for Dante over GigaBit LAN…. when Dante will arive !!
The cable is only 16.1mm in diameter.

Regards, Rene

Nothing is completly true, and even that’s not true.

Glade to hear it’s working fine. I’m assuming you use the 3 x 1.5mm for your power to the surface and the other ops gear. I wonder if this can be used for the full 110 meters?
Jim

R72 & IDR32

2011/04/15 at 3:37 am #27981

Dave
Participant

I’m using the ProCo PCE2-100. So far no problems but it is not listed on your tested list.
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