About ethernet/madi cable

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This topic contains 10 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Dave Dave 10 years, 2 months ago.

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  • #22265
    Profile photo of alain
    alain
    Participant

    Hi,
    I’m looking all another parts i need for working well with my future idr48.
    In my search i found a cable with audio and 2x ethernet Cat6 UTP.
    The dealer give this electrical data for Cat6: D.C.R@20°C <68,5ohm/Km
    Capacitance: 50pF/m. Nominal impedance: 100ohm

    I looking http://www.ilive-digital.com/cables.html and see the recommanded cable is Cat5e STP.

    My question: ACE and ethernet control for IDR48 can working well with Cat6 UTP, or really need Cat5e?

    The other cable i found is multi coax video, with 5x 75ohm.
    Electrical data is: D.C.R: 180ohm/Km, Capacitance: 59pF/m, Attenuance/100m: 4,8db/5Mhz, 6,6db/10Mhz, 10,8/20Mhz, 14db/50Mhz, 22,6db/100Mhz.

    It’s a good cable for madi and world clock signal?

    Alain

    #25201
    Profile photo of ahjeff
    ahjeff
    Moderator

    Hi Alain

    For ACE, we can only recommend the cables listed on our cabling page which you linked to, as these are the cables we have tested for compliance with EMC regulations when used with our products. For Cat5/6 cable, figures like capacitance and DCR are not that reliable as cable metrics – other factors such as twist uniformity and pair separation are important, and are not normally specified. For this reason you cannot really tell from the published data if a particular cable will work at 120 meters. Your Cat6 cable may well work, but we cannot say what cable length might be reliable with it, and can only recommend cables tested by us, due to the EMC regulations.

    For MADI, pretty much any 75-ohm coax cable will work for ‘standard’ distances (the MADI standard is up to 50m). Comparing your cable to the 1505A that we tested with, it is not very good, so you should look for something better if you want to send your MADI signal over longer distances. The spec for the 1505A is http://www.belden.com/pdfs/03Belden_Master_Catalog/06Coaxial_Cables/06.29_30.pdf . When looking at the cable spec, note that the shield type and coverage is relevant, not just attenuation figures.

    As with MADI, Word Clock will work with any 75-ohm coax cable. Cable distance will depend on the receiving device – if you are using the A&H MADI card to receive word clock, you should be able to use 100+ meters. We tested 300 meters using the Belden 1305A. If you are sending wordclock to a third party device, you will have to consult their documentation.

    Cheers

    – Jeff, A&H

    #25204
    Profile photo of alain
    alain
    Participant

    Ok Jeff, i understands ;)
    Thank you for these explanations

    I want to build a 50m snake.

    I don’t know if i can purchase belden for the good price.
    I’m freelance for many sound rental society, and of course i’m buying cable in one of her to have the best price.
    Here the most cable you can found is “eurocable” but i can see for “Klotz” too.

    Klotz just have a new audio/network cable specially for ilive ;)the RC5S-B2A2.
    For the madi and worldclock i think buying this: http://www.klotz-ais.com/quickorder/artikelpdf/RG11__f.pdf or of course 1505A if i can, but buy everything from the same place made lower the price (like shipping cost).
    It’s for A&H m-madi and my RME HDSPe-madi.

    Question for ilive user:

    What’s you having in your snake?
    I think the minimum is 2 Cat5 (1 for ace and 1 for pc-control), in my way 3 coax (madi in/out and wc) and 1 power.
    A few pairs of audio and…what else?

    Alain

    #25205
    Profile photo of ahjeff
    ahjeff
    Moderator

    Hi Alain

    The Klotz cable you linked to seems OK if you’re only going 50 meters. It’s also stranded so it should be more reliable. For your MADI ‘snake’, you don’t actually need word clock – both the A&H MADI card and the RME HDSPe-MADI can sync from the MADI stream itself – the word clock is really for older devices which cannot sync from the MADI stream (although there is no problem in you using the word clock if you prefer).

    We have a sample of the RC5S-B2A2 ‘iLive’ cable, and could not understand what it is really for. If you want to control the system using a laptop or similar, you can just plug it into the surface network ports, and the control is bridged down the ACE link. Similarly, sending audio to/from the surface position can be achieved with the i/o on the back of the surface, using the outputs page.

    Klotz RC5 is one of our recommended cables, so that would be a good choice.

    Cheers

    – Jeff, A&H

    #25207
    Profile photo of Mr-B
    Mr-B
    Participant

    Forget copper go fibre goes further and weighs less[8D]

    #25208
    Profile photo of alain
    alain
    Participant

    Hi Jeff,
    Again thank’s, you take a time for me and it’s pleasant[:D]

    I found a Belden 1505A in society i’m working.
    Guys says to me he have too 1305A in stock.
    He use this cable and says to me it’s working very well for 100m, but he working with ethersound system, not ACE.
    I think if it’s good for ethersound it’s good for ACE too, i’m right?

    For the word clock, one day i’m working with yamaha DM2000 and the guys working in rental society use one apoogee bigben. I don’t know why but the sound is better.
    It’s same result with IDR? I can’t check for this time, but if answer is yes i’m happy to building my snake with 3x 75ohm, and the standard lengths for order it’s 150m, so it’s easy to build 3x50m ;)

    Mr B, my first idea is using fibre, very good for galvanic isolation, but A&H M-MADI doesn’t have this, only bnc.

    #25209
    Profile photo of ahjeff
    ahjeff
    Moderator

    Hi Alain

    The 1305A is a good cable, but as mentioned above, we can only officially recommend the cables listed on our cables page.

    Some people prefer to use an external word clock, on some desks it makes a big difference. With iLive, we haven’t found that they make a noticeable difference, but others may disagree.

    If you want to use optical for MADI, you could try the SSL Opto-Coax http://www.solid-state-logic.com/Music/Xlogic%20MADI%20Opti-Coax/index.asp or the RME MADI Bridge http://www.rme-audio.de/en_products_madi_bridge.php . We have customers who have successfully used both of these with the A&H MADI card.

    Cheers

    – Jeff, A&H

    #27978
    Profile photo of simonmoy
    simonmoy
    Participant

    quote:


    Originally posted by alain

    I looking http://www.ilive-digital.com/cables.html and see the recommanded cable is Cat5e STP.

    Alain


    The ‘iLive Cables’ page has moved. It is now at http://www.allen-heath.com/ilive/system/cables.

    #27979
    Profile photo of rreuscher
    rreuscher
    Participant

    Hi all,

    At the moment I’m using a Klotz HybridCable (Klotz HC52P15) 2x ethernet CAT5A + 3×1,5mm2. I’m using at a lenght of 60m witohut any problems for a while now. One Cat5 is used for the ACE connection. The other I will use dedicated for Dante over GigaBit LAN…. when Dante will arive !!
    The cable is only 16.1mm in diameter.

    Regards, Rene

    Nothing is completly true, and even that’s not true.

    #27980
    Profile photo of jimvoyager
    jimvoyager
    Participant

    quote:


    Originally posted by rreuscher

    Hi all,

    At the moment I’m using a Klotz HybridCable (Klotz HC52P15) 2x ethernet CAT5A + 3×1,5mm2. I’m using at a lenght of 60m witohut any problems for a while now. One Cat5 is used for the ACE connection. The other I will use dedicated for Dante over GigaBit LAN…. when Dante will arive !!
    The cable is only 16.1mm in diameter.

    Regards, Rene

    Nothing is completly true, and even that’s not true.

    Glade to hear it’s working fine. I’m assuming you use the 3 x 1.5mm for your power to the surface and the other ops gear. I wonder if this can be used for the full 110 meters?
    Jim


    R72 & IDR32

    #27981
    Profile photo of Dave
    Dave
    Participant

    I’m using the ProCo PCE2-100. So far no problems but it is not listed on your tested list.

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