Extra faders

This topic contains 17 replies, has 10 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of woutert woutert 10 years, 6 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 18 total)
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  • #22229
    Profile photo of unonuncasabe
    unonuncasabe
    Participant

    Does anybody know if the MIDI implementation has feedback so you can connect a Behringer BCF2000 as extra (cheap) moving faders?

    Thanks.

    Andy

    #24997
    Profile photo of grahamwhite
    grahamwhite
    Participant

    while on this subject i would also like to know if is possible to add a second T series console just as a controller via the network ports.

    For example. I already have a T112 / IDR48 system and i need extra control… So i i add a T80 surface, theoretically what is to stop me from manually giving the T80 a unique IP address just like i do with a laptop running editor and hooking into a spare Network port either on the mixrack (but ideally on the T112 surface)

    Surely this should work.. correct?

    I would assume the PAFL would still route through the main console, and no audio would pass through the sidecar but in its simplest form a surface is just a computer running editor with a bit of software controlling the faders and LEDs.. right?

    A&H.. your thoughts please.

    Graham

    #24999
    Profile photo of Stix
    Stix
    Participant

    Hi Andy – The iLive does send and receive midi for faders,mutes, DCA assign, name/colour and scene program changes so yes you can use a midi controller with moving faders – provided it can send/ receive the correct midi data. I have developed a custom environment in logic audio to convert the ilive midi data to work with a logic control (LC). This should also work with a BCF2000 if in logic control mode. With the LC bank keys you can access every channel of the iLive and the faders will all be recalled to their current position. My environment also offers some powerful other features when used with a logic/Mackie control – such as LC channel strip naming to match the iLive, a DCA solo mode, custom assignable strips (put what ever strips you need on the LC surface), DCA assignments, direct access to DCA’s , master fader, Scene recall plus 32 independent fader/mute scenes etc. The LC can be used as an extension to the ilive surface or stand alone with the editor/laptop (with midi connections from the mixrack). When using with a wireless Laptop I can also connect MIDI and 2 ch Audio to/from the mixrack over a single Cat5 cable (via USB extensions) to a Tascam US122 sound card. Check out these screen shots over at Pro Sound Web: http://srforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/fa/25411/0/ http://srforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/fa/25413/0/

    The ilive Midi Spec can be found Here: http://www.ilive-digital.com/Downloads/iLive%20MIDI%20specification%20V1.3.pdf

    I am intending to get some video uploaded to U-tube of the software/LC in use but I’ve been to busy to get it done! The requirements to get it to work are a 2×2 midi interface (1 Midi in/out for the LC, 1 Midi In/out to the iLive), Logic Audio (PC or MAc), plus a Logic Control or Mackie control universal in Logic control mode. If anyone is interested in this then let me know.

    Graham – Interesting idea of using another iLive surface as a controller -Hopefully A&H will clarify if that could be done.

    #25000
    Profile photo of msmelser
    msmelser
    Participant

    Graham, we were considering doing the same thing. I hooked a second T112 up to our iDR48 to try it out a little while back. It worked fine, but I only played with it for a few minutes so I don’t know if it would be stable for the length of a show. It makes sense that it would work like a second computer though. . .

    #25013
    Profile photo of bucks
    bucks
    Participant

    Hello All

    The multiple surface to single mix rack is something on the to do list, but unfortunately at this time we don’t support it.

    It is possible to connect two surfaces to the same rack, but the surfaces will not behave as you would expect. For instance its not possible to select different channels on each surface, as the processing on both desks will be the last channel selected on either desk.

    Sounds confusing, but there are a number of gotchas which are not obvious the first time you connect both surfaces.

    If you feel this is an important feature, feel free to shout and it may make its way up the priority list !

    Have a good Christmas everyone.

    Andy
    A&H

    #25014
    Profile photo of grahamwhite
    grahamwhite
    Participant

    Hey Andy,

    Whilst i dont think this is the most important update, i do think it would be a good idea.

    So are you saying it will technically work but say if you select Channel1 on the first surface and tweak the EQ on the second surface it will mirror the changes?

    I would think this could be a good point…. No matter which surface you are on you can tweak the selected channel, even if its not selected on the second surface.

    OK… it sounds like you gotta remember not to grab a handful of eq without first selecting the correct channel (on the correct surface) but we have to do do this anyway so its not a negative point.

    Tell me more about the pros and cons of connecting 2 surfaces when you have the time. I am interested in a second surface.

    Cheers
    Graham

    #25027
    Profile photo of bucks
    bucks
    Participant

    Hi Graham

    Other possible issues off the top of my head would be 2 surface of different types, or 2 surfaces of the same type with different I/O cards fitted connecting to the same rack. Either of these will confuse the preamp / trim settings, as each surface informs the rack of its local I/O cards at boot up, therefore the last surface to boot will win. The Rack is only aware of a singular surface, so there is a potential conflict there.

    Like I said before its not something we support or recommend. If you have the hardware and want to give it a go and can cope with the oddities, then let us know how you get on, but your off piste so to speak !

    Ill make sure the multi surface support is added to the list.

    Andy
    A&H

    #25050
    Profile photo of dnxmirrorsounds
    dnxmirrorsounds
    Participant

    I’d love to get hold of the Logic Environment you were talking about if I could. the Prosoundweb links don’t seem to go anywhere interesting :(

    #25052
    Profile photo of CareyD
    CareyD
    Participant

    The request for two surfaces working with one MixRack is usually for the two engineer FOH/Monitors situation. Two surfaces, one brain. Here you would need independent channel selection. As Andy says this is not supported yet but on the list for future release.

    A couple things to remember: First, you could use a smaller MixRack as the second brain if you are using a digital mic split to link them. That would make it more affordable and compact. Both racks could live in the same case. Second, you can achieve a two surfaces, one brain system using your laptop as a ‘virtual surface’. That lets two engineers carry out independent tasks at the same time using the one MixRack, for example FOH and monitor mixing.
    Hope that helps,
    Carey

    #25057
    Profile photo of Stix
    Stix
    Participant

    The links I posted above to Prosoundweb above seem to have a strange behaviour – if you click on them you may get a error or file not found message – however if you then hit your browser refresh button the links then work.

    Here’s another link which is to the original article http://srforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/m/395413/0/?srch=ilive+scene+save#msg_395413
    Scroll down to my later posts and you can also find the attached images there.

    I still haven’t done the demo video – will try to find time but just to busy most of the time.
    I will be interested to see the pricing on the new IDR16 and the iLive R72 surface. The R72 could be the best solution to having a compact FOH set up like the Mackie control/Laptop and custom logic environment I use on smaller jobs.
    Pity they didn’t make the screen fold down like a laptop so the unit was much smaller again!

    Richard
    IDR48/T112

    #25160
    Profile photo of pete.j
    pete.j
    Participant

    Hey Richard,

    very interesting thing. I was thinking about a similar thing – adding a (cheap) Behringer BCF2000 as fader for let’s say vocal, rev and delay or so.

    But I didn’t manage to send all 3 strings needed to adress channel, select function (there fader) and send value.

    I’m logic user too, so you’re solution seems to be very smart (though your able to switch between differen channel which one can’t even do with a PL6!).

    But I’m not very familiar with the environment thing. So would you give me some hints?

    This are my main qustion:

    – I asume you create a “dummy” audiochannel in Logic for every iLive-channel you want to control, so the Logic-Control can handle the channels via these dummies ?
    – If so, how can an audiochannel create needed mididata (or even basic data, that can be used for a transformer)
    – How can you sent all 3 strings needed? Is it just a macro including 3 transformers?

    I know it needs a lot know how to create such an enviroment like you did, but I would be thankful if you can share a little bit of your knowledge.

    Regards Peter

    IDR48/T112

    #25162
    Profile photo of Stix
    Stix
    Participant

    Hi Pete

    Yes you are correct – the logic arrange window needs to mirror the channels on the iLive – or you can customise and have whatever channels/ names you want. The environment is very complex and uses sysex to send the correct midi strings. It would take some time to explain everything so I will just send you a copy of the environment(if you reply to my email). If you are bored and have the time you can study my environment to see how it works! There are set up instructions included on screenset 8. I would do a backup first as it’s very easy to mess it up with a click in the wrong place! It should work with the Behringer – I think the BCF can be put in a Logic emulation mode? The Mackie is the way to go though as you get channel names/values and direct quick access to DCA’s, Fx Sends, Returns, Buss’s, master fader etc when using a mackie control’s global view keys and bank change. It has over 128 channel strips! I’ve also just added lighting control using the free Abuelites software and a supported computer DMX interface (I have a Enttec ODE Artnet node which can also share the CAT5 iLive network). Just hit the MIDI Tracks global key on the Mackie and you have control of Abuelites 20 programmable subfaders (each subfader scene has 512 DMX channel access). Lighting and sound on one control surface! The demo video is….being edited and will be here someday. Trouble is I keep updating the environment with new features so the video is already way out of date!

    Cheers

    Richard
    IDR48/T112

    #25425
    Profile photo of Stix
    Stix
    Participant

    I finally have the LC-iLive video done. Check it out to see how a Mackie Control can be used as additional faders/mutes, scene control and even for sequencing fader movements with the iLive. The Mackie has banks and quick keys to access all 128 iLive channels,FX,DCA’s and mix faders. It uses a Logic environment to interface between the computer and iLive MIDI I/O and is designed to run in conjunction with the editor software. Let me know your thoughts.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhMbfmfpPoQ

    Richard
    IDR48/T112

    #25426
    Profile photo of unonuncasabe
    unonuncasabe
    Participant

    That’s what I was talking about!!!
    Are you making this available somehow?

    Thanks!

    #25427
    Profile photo of mjpruzin
    mjpruzin
    Participant

    Richard,

    That is awesome! I’m relatively new to Logic having recently made the switch from Pro Tools so I can see that I have a lot to learn about not only its music creation capabilities but also show control potential! Two quick questions:

    Do you know if Logic Pro 9 for Mac has the features to accomplish this (It seems that the 8 release changed a lot about the program)?
    Is it possible to still acquire an old Logic 5.5 or later for the PC, and can you direct me to a source?

    I bet if you posted your environments online with a donation box you would see some return.

    Thanks!

    M. Jason Pruzin
    Sound Designer/Engineer
    Arkansas Repertory Theatre

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