parallel compression

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This topic contains 10 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Tuejo Tuejo 11 years, 7 months ago.

Viewing 11 posts - 1 through 11 (of 11 total)
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  • #22178
    Profile photo of robc
    robc
    Participant

    Hi
    I noticed a thread debating parallel compression. This is something we are interested in and have been doing some listening and talking to engineers about off forum.
    I would be interested in hearing some more about what people want in this arena. Parallel and multiband ideas..
    The logical way to work parallel compression at the moment is to run two parallel input channels (common source) compress one and apply makeup to that. Then mix in the dry uncompressed channel on the fader to taste. Restoring HF and transients back in with the dry feed. Some mentionned they cut LF on the dry since its the compressed LF they want not the uncompressed LF. Makes sense. This is approaching multiband compression.
    One guy says he uses a group, which must be a way of saving input channels or compressing drums and then mixing in raw transients on a per channels basis …

    Anyway I am all ears !

    RobC
    A&H

    #24818
    Profile photo of Tuejo
    Tuejo
    Participant

    Hi.

    You would have to use a group if you want to summe the drums and then paralel compress them. This way you run into the problem with bus delay. So the direct signal is faster then the signal running through a bus and the total output will start to flam and fase.

    A fast solution to the problem would be to ad a mix button to the compressor. Same as the “wet and dry” in a FX. This would then be a “direct and compressed” mix button. This gives parallel compression to all channels and busses with no bus delay issues. Would you then want to filter on this you would have to run duel channels/busses.

    In the suggestions forum I have written about multiband and deesser wishes.

    Thanks a lot. Best from Tue Johannessen.

    #24820
    Profile photo of josiaspicone
    josiaspicone
    Participant

    would be interesting a multiband compresor on the fx section, with mono or stereo options, so if you want to apply compression to a group of channels just use the send to that fx, and if you want to apply compression to one channel just made an insetion.

    sorry about my Tarzan english style

    Solo se que no se nada

    #24823
    Profile photo of PeterM
    PeterM
    Participant

    One of my favorite toys is BSS’s DPR901. Essentially, the iLive has everything – gate, hard/soft knee compression, De-essing etc. except something like this.

    Typically I would use it to take some of the harshness out vocals especially at high SPLs. I would set it at frequency around 3KHz and above a certain threshold it would suck a hole out at that frequency. On top of that I would also apply standard compression. Although the 901 is capable of far more, for live applications I hardly ever use it for more than this.

    Things like dynamic EQ and Multi-band compression are standard industry tools. Parallel compression is not, that’s not to say it does work etc. etc. its just that I would prefer a comprehensive set of standard tools as a first priority.

    The PM5D has multi-band compression, the iLive does not. From an equipment hire inventory perspective, that’s +1 for Yamaha … if you know what I mean …

    Best Regards
    Peter

    Peter

    #24837
    Profile photo of Tuejo
    Tuejo
    Participant

    I tried to use the multiband in the PM5D for taking out 3 KHz on a voc. I found that the quality of the plugin was to bad and it messed up more then it saved… I ended up using the TC EQ station.

    AH you could take a quick glimse at the controlles and features of the TC maschine – that workes really good. Only I find that 2 band dynamic EQ is not enough. 3 Band of multi comp is not enough. That gives you only High mid and low bands. For live we need the 2-4 KHz area seppareted as well. So 4 band of multi comp.

    I you go all in then please make a deesser with db range (as the waves for protools) and Q value on the slope.

    #24847
    Profile photo of PeterM
    PeterM
    Participant

    Hi Tuejo

    I have seen a few other similar comments about the Yamaha’s multi band comp http://srforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/m/480812/0/?srch=yamaha+multi#msg_480812

    “For live we need the 2-4 KHz area separated as well” absolutely!

    FWIW I would also be happy with a modified de-esser, which had adjustable Q and dynamic gain reduction, more or less like one band of a 901.

    I have seen a few engineers use the old 402’s set at about 3 kHz as a simple, quick and easy way to remove harshness on vocals. It’s not the best tool, but it works.

    Many engineers find the 901 too complicated and will not use it … that’s why I like the idea of an easy to use “super” de-esser that would also do simple dynamic EQ

    Peter

    #24848
    Profile photo of robc
    robc
    Participant

    thanks thats useful stuff.
    The band splitting is another area of interest, in that what slope filter is needed between bands ?
    some smoother slope multiband comps sound smooth and pleasant, (danish ones) ! But you may not get the isolation between 2k and 4 kHz.

    #24852
    Profile photo of Tuejo
    Tuejo
    Participant

    Hmm good point. I opened some of the tools I ennjoy a lot and it seems they run 12 db/oct in slope. Witch makes 3 band a valid offer for smooth level controlle BUT it will not keep the narrow area 2-4 KHz in control.
    Really it is more like 2,45 KHz to 2,85 KHz depending on where the brand of driver has its distortion.
    Maybe my fellow Danes got it right when they choose to handle this as two not directly related issues. If this is the problem of the day it goes to the dyn eq and not the mulitiband.
    This way you can keep the multiband 3 band with 12 db/oct. The steeper you devide the more you degrade the audio, the more times you devide and summe the more you degrade the audio.

    You can always make the slopes ajustable from 12 to 24 and make it 4 band with a bypass option for each band. More programming for you :-)

    #24855
    Profile photo of robc
    robc
    Participant

    i think you are very right.
    Isolating 2k4 and 2k8 with a mult band split is very hard and associated problems with high sloped band gain changes will sound phasy i think !

    dynamic eq would be the way.

    Tuejo, dont your country men use a 6dB as well ? if so how do you find that.

    #24856
    Profile photo of Mr-B
    Mr-B
    Participant

    Hi Rob sounds like what you need is a Finalizer to play with mate.[8D]

    What about the broadcast style multibands some of those don’t sound too bad. Things like the Optimod, a little brutal perhaps.

    #24859
    Profile photo of Tuejo
    Tuejo
    Participant

    Well Tube-Tech builds an analog tube based 3 band compressor. That one runs with 6 db/oct. I had it out on a few gigs in 2002 or so.

    The only reason I did not go for it was the 6db/oct slope. I did not feel it behaved enough as a multiband to pony up for it. It becomes more of a colorbox then a multiband comp at 6. I would say 12 is the least maybe even 18.. but not 6:-)

    This is a hard task. We would like a “straight through” sound with the MB on and threshold not at signal level. Don´t put it in there if it´s not a killer…

    Cheers

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