reverb pre delay complaint

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  • 2009/08/13 at 11:00 am #22099
    Profile photo of mumumumu
    Participant

    yesterday i had the first engineer (kol simcha kletzmer jazz) which was
    using the predelay of the reverb (it was the string hall preset)to change during songs. it appears that it must be the same delay algorhythm like for the channel/outputs e.t.c. delay wich means: everytime he actually fiddled with the pre-delay the reverb would mute for a little time (thats why i presume it must be done the same way as the delays mentioned before), as this is a common way to use reverbs i suggest a fix for this (it is clearly understandable that if one sets delay on outputs and channels it has to mute as it was discussed in a other thread but it should definetely not be like this on a effect)

    cheers
    dave

    allen&heath iLive-144 /idr 10 /

    2009/08/13 at 12:48 pm #24511
    Profile photo of robcrobc
    Participant

    the predelay calculation has some affects on the early reflection patterns. This is what makes some of the models sound the way they do.
    So when you change the predelay the reflection model is muted to stop clicks, hence no reverb for a short period. We will assess the click factor apon predelay change, some fx units click when you change reflection model. If we had done it the other way you would be mentioning the clicks !

    The gated reverb does not have the same reflection model relationship and predelay changes do not click and are silent. Although some gated reverbs do click apon predelay change – maybe you want the annoying click ;>)

    other people have mentioned it on the channel delay too. We are investigating this.

    2009/08/13 at 10:49 pm #24517
    Profile photo of soundsound
    Participant

    quote:

    Originally posted by mumu

    …it is clearly understandable that if one sets delay on outputs and channels it has to mute…

    No, it has not. It’s a big annoyance and should be fixed ASAP.

    Greetings,
    Walter

    2009/08/14 at 10:53 am #24519
    Profile photo of mumumumu
    Participant

    so lets have it as a option (switch clicks on and off[:D])

    cheers
    dave

    allen&heath iLive-144 /idr 10 /

    2009/08/14 at 1:04 pm #24522
    Profile photo of soundsound
    Participant

    quote:

    Originally posted by mumu

    so lets have it as a option (switch clicks on and off[:D])

    Could it be that the amount of artefacts when changing the delay is related to how much effort is put into programming delay changes?

    Greetings,
    Walter

    2009/08/19 at 9:48 am #24556
    Profile photo of robcrobc
    Participant

    Walter,
    No, it has not. It’s a big annoyance and should be fixed ASAP.
    please explain – No, it has not ?

    Are you answering my statement about predelay and early reflections ?

    If so i reiterate, OUR reverb has relationships between the early reflection pattern and the user setting for predelay. Change predelay early pattern changes too.
    if you insert predelay on a small room without consdiering the full reflection pattern it will no longer sound like a small room.
    Also it is the reason why certain verbs sound the way they do.

    2009/08/19 at 10:01 am #24557
    Profile photo of robcrobc
    Participant

    The channel delay mute is not the same algorithm as the reverb.
    one has one tap, the reverb has a complex network structure. We were originally told to mute for the channel delay changes. Now people want an unmute route.

    To answer Walters last comment, we put every effort into delay changes and early reflection models to give the customer the best sounding processing and listen to requests such as ‘no clicks and bangs’. Sorry this has caused you trouble.

    As i have said, we are investigating this, so we are not just ignoring it. I am just trying to explain it isnt simple.

    2009/08/19 at 12:58 pm #24559
    Profile photo of soundsound
    Participant

    quote:

    Originally posted by robc

    Are you answering my statement about predelay and early reflections ?

    No, I only referred to the statement ‘if one sets delay on outputs and channels it has to mute’. Sorry if it wasn’t clear.

    No problem with the reverbs – like them.

    Greetings,
    Walter

    2009/08/19 at 9:34 pm #24560
    Profile photo of mumumumu
    Participant

    i checked on other reverbs(room presets) it is indeed:
    some of em mute and those wich do not mute one can hear slight clicks/
    artifacts,
    so maybe a mute on off option would do the job…..
    engineers must be living with those clicks (they dont really hear em during the show (if there is a whole band playing)

    cheers
    dave

    allen&heath iLive-144 /idr 10 /

    2009/08/21 at 11:58 am #24576
    Profile photo of robcrobc
    Participant

    Hi Dave,
    This is what we found during development. Some verbs click and some mute.
    We were told no clicks and bangs for live. I can understand that during scene change you dont what an annoying hf click, even small.
    I also agree on a rock number tweaking a snare predelay to get the space right is really useful.
    Please bear with us, we will investigate, click size!
    But its not a quick thing.

    2009/08/22 at 7:55 am #24583
    Profile photo of mumumumu
    Participant

    great thanks

    cheers
    dave

    allen&heath iLive-144 /idr 10 /

    2009/08/24 at 5:47 pm #24592
    Profile photo of Mr-BMr-B
    Participant

    Fairly sure an M7 and the PM5 click, though to be honest I hated the verbs so much I could not give a fig. I really miss the iLIve when I can’t have one or even two. [8D]
    Generally the quality of the effects do spank quite a lot of others, And I know I am a Luddite but I am not a fan of plug ins either.[:D]

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