Scene save and recall delays

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This topic contains 7 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of antonyja antonyja 14 years, 8 months ago.

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  • #22066
    Profile photo of Geep

    This comment was posted on the Theater Sound List recently by Mike Miceli, who is the sound supervisor at Hartford Stage, Hartford CT, US, posted here with his permission:

    “…I’ll put in a word of warning about the iLive; It’s not ready yet for theater use. After a deep demo of the system I can tell you that there are a lot of nice features and some things I really liked about the setup, BUT, once we set up a scene we went to recorded it and the write process took almost 15 seconds with only minimal changes from one scene to the new one. We made lot’s of changes and stored again, this time it took well over 30 seconds. Recall times were nearly the same, so in other words, you cannot possibly use this board with any kind of scene recalls live.
    Also, for those who would want to use it with Palladium, that’s a no-go at the moment. There is not a fully fleshed out midi subsystem in place in the board for all parameters, or even basic ones. There is a midi implementation but at this point it seems limited to recalls or mute groups I can’t recall exactly.
    We were told that the software is being actively developed, so maybe some of this will change, or even already has, but make sure to check before going to far with it.”

    Our company does a fair amount of theater work, and this is disconcerting. Any comments from other users regarding recall speed?

    (Palladium is Chris Hubbard’s control program, CH Sound Design in Melbourne, Australia)

    Lynchburg, VA


    Profile photo of mdsaudio

    Hmmm…. sounds a bit strange!
    Scene recalls are almost instantaneous on my unit.
    Archiving and recalling shows takes several seconds as the ilive totally reconfigures, but this is not something that you would ever be doing mid performance.
    Perhaps they had some confusion understanding the difference between scene/show recall?

    Profile photo of Mr-B

    I agree sounds like some confusion over scene and show recall. I have done many shows on an iLive scene recall is to my mind instant, 1 scene per song and hit the recall button it all happens.
    You could argue that update a scene is a bit slow, but I tend to use store all which is a bit quicker.

    Archive show is about 15 seconds and recall a show configuration can take a couple of minutes but who does that mid gig without a strong reason. Not I.

    As for the Midi issue I just don’t go there,I decided long ago Midi was for Keyboard Techs bless them

    Profile photo of millst

    I have used the I-Live on a couple of theatre shows. No problem at all. Hundreds of scene recalls and all instant.
    You just have to make sure you only save what you need in the scene. If you are saving the entire mixer configuration in a scene then yes it will take a long time to load each scene. But I have no idea why you would want to do that unless you didn’t know what you were doing.

    Profile photo of antonyja

    As Darren says the scene recall time is dependant on what the scene contains. A complete scene (eg. added with add all) that changes levels, mutes & a few processing settings should take less than 1 second to recall. Changes to patchbay (I/O Patching) takes longer to complete – but I wouldn’t envisage doing this during or between scenes.

    As for MIDI the specification was developed with help from Chris Hubbard, maybe they were using an early version of software…
    See the web site for a more detailed MIDI spec but a quick summary follows…

    For V1.3 the following MIDI functions will be supported.

    Input Main Level
    Input Main Mute
    Mix Main Level
    Mix Main Mute
    DCA Level
    DCA Mute
    Scene Recall
    MIDI Machine control (via JAVA page)

    For V1.4 the following extra MIDI functions will be supported.

    FX Send Main Level
    FX Send Main Mute
    FX Return (IP FX) Main Level
    FX Return (IP FX) Main Mute
    Naming & colouring
    DCA Assignments

    However there is a bug in V1.43 that has stopped the levels from working correctly, this is fixed in the soon to be available V1.5, along with other theatre friendly features such as scene re-ordering.

    Antony Jackson
    Software Manager
    Allen and Heath Limited

    Profile photo of Geep

    Thanks for the responses. There was a post on the theater sound list this afternoon to the effect that the delay problem was no longer, which makes me a lot happier! Also good to know that Chris had input to the MIDI controls, I use his software and have always been impressed with his knowledge.

    I hope to own a T112 after the first of the year.

    HH Audio
    Lynchburg, VA USA


    Profile photo of Stix

    Good to know that there is a MIDI bug – I’ve been trying to get fader levels controlled by midi but they just jump all over the place! Mutes, Scene recalls work fine over midi. My objective is to have a custom midi controller that I can use with a Laptop to control the mix rack without a surface from FOH for smaller gigs/ corporate work etc. My wish is that A&H offer a “Mackie Control” MIDI mode as a MC would make an excellent controller. Oh – but then why would you need those PL remote things? A MC could offer moving faders, select, mute, solo, mix buttons, encoders, display, fader banks etc.

    On the Theatre front I to believe that there needs to be far greater flexibility for the scene save/edit/recall system. The biggest problem I see is that in scene edit mode with just the input mixer selected the scene stores ALL input mixer settings and so mutes, all channel assignments (including DCA assignments) and aux levels cannot be stored independently of each other. You also can’t currently store information just for some selected channels. For theatre I would like to only recall say the Radio mic channels/mutes, without recalling Orchestra channel settings (I Know you could Scene safe those channels). Other parts of the show may need different things stored/recalled. More options please A&H? If these save options do become available in future upgrades then a user save library setting would be good so that you can have your “User” scene save settings – with a User defined key or even better a key combination such as hold the ALT View key and press the scene GO button to store your default “User” scene or to update an existing one. I’ve got lots more ideas but …work to do .. so L8r. Stix

    Profile photo of antonyja

    Hi Stix,

    Sorry the MIDI bug has been causing you headaches! As for the “partial” input mixer scenes – just be patient, V1.5 is on its way…[:)]

    Antony Jackson
    Software Manager
    Allen and Heath Limited

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