Waves MultiRack & TracksLive

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This topic contains 12 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of pete.j pete.j 3 weeks, 1 day ago.

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  • #64685
    Profile photo of 8days
    8days
    Participant

    Hey Guys,

    i have a S7000 + DM64 (Waves V3 Card instalt) here.
    I send all my Inputs over the Virtual Soundcheck option to an Mac with TracksLive it works realy well.
    Now i get as an addon for plugins a Waves Server One. Patching all Chanels are fine but when i set the Virtual Soundcheck option on inactive Waves Multirack works (over inserts) fine. Then i go to Record Send Mode an TracksLive works but the Multirack gets no Input.

    I like to use TracksLive as recording and Multirack for Plugins at the same time. Is this possible

    Do you have a workaround for this Problem?

    #64686
    Profile photo of Art
    Art
    Participant

    I’m so glad you asked this question. I wanted to do the same thing on Friday and ran into the exact same issue. I wonder if this is possible and am hopeful that there’s an answer.

    However, all you really need to do is re-route your patching on Multirack and it does the same thing for you. That’s how I’ve always done it with the GLD’s and it works fine on the dLives as well.

    Art

    #64701
    Profile photo of 8days
    8days
    Participant

    Today i drive the 1.51 update to the console.
    And my problem was gone i do the patch again and now it works also with other shows (without repaching).
    Do you changed somthing in the firmware regarding the waves stuff?

    #64785
    Profile photo of tpaulding
    tpaulding
    Participant

    I’m not in front of my setup right now but we dealt with the same issue and fixed it by creating smaller channel ranges in the SoundGrid setup. Waves channels 1-72 go back and forth between the s7000 and Tracks live while Waves channels 73-128 go back and forth between the s7000 and the SoundGrid. This lets everything work immediately when flipping between RECORD and VIRTUAL SOUNDCHECK.

    #65110
    Profile photo of pete.j
    pete.j
    Participant

    @8days:

    send me a pm and we can phone. I know your company well and touring with a dLive System with a almost identical setup.

    All channels (lets say 1-64) you setup for virtual soundcheck a blocked exclusively at the moment when you activate Record or Virtual Soundcheck mode, so the patch has a higher priority.

    Also you have to think of the SoundGrid network as network. Means a channel “subscribed” for MultiRack is used. So the trick is to use f.e. channels 1-64 for Multirack and Channels 65-128 for recording.
    In MultiRack connections you have to “patch” than dLive 1-64 to MR 1-64 (and back) and dLive 65-128 to SoudGrid ASIO (which is the virtual Soundcard for TracksLive then) and back (if you want to do virtual soundcheck).
    It has nothing to do with the firmware as it was the same on 1.4x.

    But: I didn’t upgrade to 1.5 because there’s a bug. If you have set a scene-recall filter, as soon as you recall this scene, there will be no audio anymore on SoundGrid. As I’m on tour right now and don’t want to upgrade a running system I didn’t check 1.51 if it still has this bug. But Johannes didn’t say anything that they already fixed it, so I assume it’s not fixed yet.

    cheers Peter

    #65458
    Profile photo of pete.j
    pete.j
    Participant

    Hi 8days,

    1.52 fixed the problem with Waves Card. And with 1.5x you can use the new DAW Control Driver in “Thru” mode to send MIDI via TCP/IP to MultiRack for Snapshot-Control from dLives Snapshots.

    Only you have to bridge the dLive Network-Port with one Port of the Waves-Card, to send MIDI from dLive to MR over the SoundGrid connection.

    Cheers

    #65459
    Profile photo of Steph.plisson
    Steph.plisson
    Participant

    HI,

    I’m using the Live with the 1.52 with the Waves V3 card. The card is master in its pref.
    I’ve got a Waves extrem server.
    Mac min with track live and Multirack SG.
    Recording from 1 to 64 and inserts from 65 to 128.
    Every patch are ok.
    When I play live with band, all the inserts are ok, and I’ve got absolutely no noise and no click.
    But on the track live, when I record one or two songs that’s ok. But if I’m recoding 1 or 2 hours, I’ve got sync problem on the recording but not all the time…. The beginning is ok , middle click and the end is ok….
    Have you already had these kind of problem?…
    Other thing…. If I’m using an other audio player like Spotify or Qobuz, just for play music during the public entrance ….. The track live is always out of sync if I record since the start of the show…… I have to precise that the same problem if I use a different audio card for just this stéréo…….
    Hope you’ll have an idea… I’ve got mine….. The waves V3 card is not safe…..
    I don’t and can’t imagine go with a madi card, because I’ll need so many interface for the mac on 128IN/out 96 KHZ…
    Some of my friends use the Dante for these reasons ….. But in 48 Khz…..
    This card doesn’t really works fine and safe…… And that’s not good for Allen and Heath…..
    That’s a really plus for you, then It’s actually not the situation……
    Please!

    I’ve got an other live at home actually.
    DM48 with an other Waves Cards V3….
    I just put the Mac to remote the Live. That’s ok…
    Not very easy to navigate in the recall safe menu… That’s one point…
    But I’m using track for read the show and trying mix at home…..
    And when I’m on the Live screen I’m losing the track sync….. Just go on the Tracks live scree and the sync is ok…..
    There is perhaps something at looking in this way …… I think

    Hope you’ll find quickly, because my next shows can’t work with this kind of sync problems…..
    best regards

    Steph

    #65460
    Profile photo of Steph.plisson
    Steph.plisson
    Participant

    Please Make an AVB Cards .
    We need it instead of this Waves Card and I could send audio directly to the L acoustics AMP……. You’ll be one of the first…..Presonus did it!!!!! Please

    #65461
    Profile photo of tor
    tor
    Participant

    You are aware that 128 channels of I/O is a LOT, and all your connections will take up resources, it will put a lot of stress on both connections and computer. With so much going on, you need to raise the Network Latency in Multirack Soundgrid significantly higher than the standard 0,8ms – and have very high buffersize in Tracks Live.

    The Waves V3 card has run absolutely perfectly for me.

    #65464
    Profile photo of Steph.plisson
    Steph.plisson
    Participant

    Thanks Tor…. But I put max Driver buffer and still problem….
    What’s your configuration?
    Are you recording 64 tracks and Inserting 16 channels?
    And if we can’t do something Waves has to precise everything…. The desk is great but I have many problems just with this card…. Waiting for your configuration .
    Best regards
    Steph

    #65465
    Profile photo of pete.j
    pete.j
    Participant

    Hi Steph,

    you have to know the concept of network based audio. So 128 I/O @96kHz means network traffic is 256 Channels @96kHz !!!
    Therefore only you have to be shure, that you’re Ethernet-Interface can handle that.
    Also, the Driver-Buffer isn’t the same as the network buffer! If you raise driver-buffer, network buffer still stays on 0.8ms, which with that channel count can be problematic.
    Therefore in inventory tab of MultiRack SG theres also network buffer. Try to raise it!

    I got the same running and absolute no problems recording 2h show with MultiRack and TracksLive on the same machine. So I doubt it’s a general problem, because my system works fine!

    cheers peter

    #65467
    Profile photo of Steph.plisson
    Steph.plisson
    Participant

    Hi peter

    Thanks for your answer.
    Are you using the Waves card v3 as Ethernet interface too ?
    I’m using it… perhaps my problem.
    For me the Driver buffer is at the max.
    That’s normally cool for track live. I put the track live driver at the max too.
    But not the network buffer.
    Because I can’t accept 2 seconds on plugs.
    I’m using no more 12 channels in the Multirack Sg with the Extrem server.
    Is it your configuration too ?

    By the way , I think Waves and Allen and Heath have to tell us the best configuration for using 64 or more recording tracks and 24 Multirack inserts ….

    Perhaps the best way will be the super Madi cards using some of them for recording via an SSL MADIXTREM and one for the Multirack Soundgrid via MgB

    Keep going.

    Best regards

    Steph

    #65468
    Profile photo of pete.j
    pete.j
    Participant

    Hi Steps,

    as I said – Driver isn’t the same as network!

    How many connection did you make in the Multirack Connections TAB (opens when you hit F3). This is the only number of interest if it comes to Network-Buffer, because there you set network traffic, regardless if how many channels you record and/or use for inserting PlugIns, thats just a matter of processing buffer (in MR) und Driver Buffer (in DAW).

    My setup is.

    dLive DM64 with Waves V3 card, Waves Server One, i7 19″ PC (for MR and TracksLive) with internal RealTech GB Ethernet.
    Server and MR PC are connected directly to the Waves V3 card, 3rd port is linked to the dLive network port (100MBit Ethernet-Tunnel) for MIDI-over-TCP for scene recall in MultiRack via dLive Scenes.
    I have 64 channels configured for MultiRack SG and 64 for TracksLive, all running at 96kHz.

    I found a “bug” in Windows: when I start TracksLive (MR needs to be started first, as it does all connection for the SG Driver), Network-Traffic exceeds 100% in peaks. I then raise the network buffer in Inventory tab (F2) and lower it again, then the traffic falls down to about 55% avg and 75% peak.
    I don’t have this behavior under MacOS X with my MacBook Pro and MacMini.

    But after this little workaround even under Win 10 it works fine with 0.8ms network buffer and 512 samples driver buffer for TracksLive.

    Even it doesn’t change anything for the network itself, I have like 32-36 inserts running and record 48 channels, complete show with 2h runtime.

    So I cannot say, the Waves V3 doesn’t work. Also with my MGB (which works also with SoundGrid net) I had similar configurations with pure MADI-Console, as it has 2x 64 channels, but then normally with 48kHz.

    There are few thing you have to be totally piggy with:

    – firmware of Waves card and MR SG version should match. You see it in the overview, when the fw button isn’t grayed out, at least you’re Waves V3 has an older one (the other way round is hard to see, so always keep up to date with waves).
    – firmware of your SG Server should match (same as above)
    – only use certified switches (normally all AVB certified switches also work with SG, but no guarantee!).
    – only use CAT5e or CAT6 cables, al lot had problems with CAT7 cables (also with AES50, DANTE, etc.).
    – check firewall on MR remote computer – normally it should not matter, as firewalls on OS are configured mostly on Layer 3, SG is Layer 2, but you never know.
    – ask Waves support – in my experience most of the time they are good, they also do remote sessions to find specific problems.

    cheers Peter

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