dSnake crackles on own VLAN over switch

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This topic contains 14 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of nasi nasi 3 weeks, 2 days ago.

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  • #58536
    Profile photo of Dave Boshton
    Dave Boshton
    Participant

    Trying to work this one out. So I have two switches, one at the desk end of the room and one at the stage end of a room. An AR2412 is plugged in via dSnake into a port with its own VLAN on. That’s then brought to the other switch via a tagged trunk cables (as we run a bunch of other stuff as well over it) at then the switch brings it out on its own VLAN to a a port for the GLD80.

    I get various forms of behaviour when I do this:
    1. Clean
    2. Crackly
    3. clean, apart from a click every 20 seconds, and this is logged as a QOS error on the GLD80.

    The feed from the desk to the rack is always clean. What’s coming back from the rack has problems.

    This behaviour is non determinant. I’m not using spanning tree, I get the same behaviour whether I’ve got all my Dante stuff plugged into the network (on a separate VLAN) or not.

    If anyone has any ideas, I would really appreciate them.

    #58538
    Profile photo of fxk
    fxk
    Participant

    I wasn’t aware that A&H was using a routable/switchable protocol on the dSnake. I thought Dante was the only one.
    If the dSnake protocol does not fully support the TCP/IP stack, you can’t run it on a “LAN” or even a separate VLAN. Honestly, I’m surprised you got as much success as you did.

    #58541

    @daveyb,

    Can you try disabling any managed/Layer 3+ features on the switch and reporting back?

    If you still have problems drop us an email: support@allen-heath.com

    #58545
    Profile photo of fxk
    fxk
    Participant

    Moderator,
    Are you saying that dSnake can be run through a switch successfully? If on a switch, then in theory one could use the switch to create a monitor split?

    #58548

    @kxrf

    Yes, it can be run through a switch but no, it could not be used for a split or similar – it is still a point-to-point connection rather than a networked audio protocol like Dante.

    There’s a useful article in our Knowledgebase on this very subject here:
    http://support.allen-heath.com/Knowledgebase/Article/View/703/201/can-i-run-dsnake-through-a-network-switch

    #58559
    Profile photo of PEJ
    PEJ
    Participant

    I would try a couple of things. Increase the mtu (maximum transmission unit) on the inbound and trunk ports to the maximum. Typically 9000 or 9600 bytes. The switches might be fragmenting the frames once the tag bytes are added.

    Also enable QOS (quality of service) in the switches and give those inbound ports or IPs a higher priority over other traffic. This takes a bit of work but there are likely how to guides – Google QoS and you switch brand.

    Peter

    #58585

    @pej5

    We don’t recommend the use of QOS or any other Layer 3+ features with dSnake.
    In most cases a “dumb” Layer 2 switch will work just fine.

    #58596
    Profile photo of PEJ
    PEJ
    Participant

    I expect that @ah_support also recommends that the dsnake and all connected ME-1 be on a private dedicated network and I would agree. No competing traffic and not need to enable QOS.
    The original poster indicates that they running on a vlan’ed network supporting other traffic and this is not ideal as all the traffic queues up on the trunk(tagged) port. If a separate network is not possible in this situation then QOS would ensure the dsnake traffic does not queue behind other traffic on the trunk.

    #58609
    Profile photo of Dave Boshton
    Dave Boshton
    Participant

    The numbers are favourable as regards traffic and also the problem is latent when there is no other traffic, but when it’s going to manifest is anyone’s guess.

    Would be really good to get this sorted if anyone’s got any advice on debugging etc.

    #58613
    Profile photo of PEJ
    PEJ
    Participant

    I’d break it down in order narrow down were the problem is. Connect the AR directly to the GLD using the trunk cable only to first confirm the A&H components are not the source of the problem. Assuming this works fine, I would re-introduce the two switches and associated extra jumpers required, but I would complete a factory reset on the switches so they are basic layer 2 switches with no elaborate configuration. (I assume you have saved the existing config before resetting). If this works fine then you have narrowed it down to the vlan and tagged port configuration that A&H discourages.
    My third debugging step would be to reconfigure from scratch only adding the basic vlanning/tagging required, retesting as you go. I expect the problem may appear sometime during this process.
    Your options at this point will be to run dedicated wiring for the GLD-AR or turn on QOS. My experience with QOS in my day job (network engineer) has all been positive. I have not studied the d-snake protocol and processes so i cannot argue the A&H recommendation that goes against your config.

    #58617
    Profile photo of fxk
    fxk
    Participant

    Good, solid debugging techniques, PEJ. One change, test, move on.

    #59342
    Profile photo of Dave Boshton
    Dave Boshton
    Participant

    The problem is latent when the switch is used. The only time the connection is reliable is when I do a hardwire between the GLD80 and the AR2412. This is regardless of how many things are plugged in.

    Has anyone actually done this successfully? I’m now in a position where I’ve bought some expensive managed switches purely for the sake of dSnake which I now can’t seem to use reliably, which means I can’t use them at all.

    #63234
    Profile photo of [XAP]Bob
    [XAP]Bob
    Participant

    I hAve on the QU. Managed switches often have “in elite terms” features, and those caused regular clicks.

    In our case it was attempting to decode the protocol despite not needing to for QoS

    #63794
    Profile photo of Mrvoltz
    Mrvoltz
    Participant

    Cat5 is cheap, can’t you keep a dedicated line and avoid all the headaches.
    When we talked about purchasing our GLD112 I pulled three dedicated Cat5e shielded cables between FOH and the stage(140 feet), then another to what was our TV room from FOH (80 feet) just in case we want to record remotely via Dante.
    IMHO that was easier and cheaper than the mess you have to deal with.

    #68638
    Profile photo of nasi
    nasi
    Participant

    Since it’s not described explicitly I’d like to aks if it’s theoretically possible to run also the Expander port through a VLAN? Or is it using a hugely different protocol than dSnake?
    A friend of mine is having problems when connecting an AB1608 through a VLAN to an AR2412 and then through another VLAN to the GLD. But it works fine with only the AR2412 connected or when using direct connections without Switches.

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